What the hell happened?

cmddata
cmddata Posts: 12 Just Starting Out*

I am absolutely furious when the hell did Hitfilm get acquired? I wanted to buy the VFX Pack 2 just now and realized everything is subscription based and I can't even find out which "plan" includes the effect I want, what the hell is this?

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Comments

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast
    edited July 7

    @cmddata, Its progress, Cant you tell?🙄

    To be fair, I think the previous business model (ie, having 90% of your customer base paying $0, and still needing support), just wasn't sustainable for long term operations.

  • triforcefx
    triforcefx United StatesPosts: 1,623 Moderator

    @cmddata It’s been acquired for about a year now, though the change to add subscriptions has been within the last few weeks.

    Unfortunately, there doesn’t appear to be a good “middle of the road” option right now… by the time you pay the subscription for the creator tier, you might as well cough up the extra for Pro.

    Basically at this point, I’d say your best options are to stay on Free (or your current version of Express), or cough up for a Pro subscription/perpetual license

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Posts: 4,309 Expert

    To be fair, I think the previous business model (ie, having 90% of your customer base paying $0, and still needing support), just wasn't sustainable for long term operations.

    Really FxHome was likely losing money on that percentage of the Express customer base. This due to codec licensing and royalty costs. This is likely why Express moved to operating system codecs for some things. AAC audio and AVC video. That brought a whole host of issues. Those functional issues maybe/probably ironed out but the quality issue of those codecs remains. Now and forever.

    Who knows what amount of pack purchases would bring them to break even, let alone support the software development going forward.

    Libavcodec is LGPL. The important codecs I believe are covered. On occasion, I have wondered why no switch to that. No license but probably a more complicated royalty situation for payments. Also, not to be overlooked the important codecs are typically best in class. e.g. AVC decode. When I poked around a little, I saw Resolve was using libavcodec for whatever (count not or did not try to figure it). At one point, I did see Resolve also using Openh264 for AVC encode. Not a great encoder, when I looked, but totally free. Cisco covers users with their license.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,201 Power User

    @NormanPCN it's worse than you've stated. Updates to Mocha and Boris cost FXhome upgrade fees, and they've eaten those for users with those add ons for years. Someone who bought the HF3 add on version of Mocha who kept it through 2021.3 cost FXhome hundreds of dollars on a $50 buy.

  • KirstieT
    KirstieT Posts: 1,271 Staff

    @cmddata sorry to hear that you're not finding the information you want - subscription launched recently and we're now adding details that users would like to see (to include them all would be overwhelming, but we want to make sure we don't go too light either).

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by the VFX Pack 2 - here are a list of the add-ons which have the words 'VFX' in the title - can you clarify for me which one you were after?

    VFX: Starter

    VFX: Damage

    VFX: Lighting

    VFX: Lighting 2

    VFX: Retro

    VFX: Retro 2

    VFX: Distortion

    VFX: Neon Lights

    Once I know which pack, I'll cross-reference the effects with the new plans and get you an answer on where those effects are now available.

    We are going to release a new video next week which includes all of these details, but I'll get those for you asap.

  • cmddata
    cmddata Posts: 12 Just Starting Out*

    I'm looking for whichever pack contains the Light Rays effect which after some googling turned out to be VFX Lighting 2

  • KirstieT
    KirstieT Posts: 1,271 Staff

    OK sure! The VFX Lighting 2 add-on was a set of advanced effects (hence why it was number 2), and it included the following:

    • Light Leak
    • Light Rays
    • Light Streaks
    • Light Leak Transitions

    These effects are watermarked in the Free and Creator plan, but included as standard in the Pro plan. Hope this helps!

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    So, I was wanting to create lasers, phasers, lightsabers, import models... starfields... etc...

    Are all those out the window now? Or do all those FX still exist in the subscriptions now?

    I'd be willing to go the subscription route, but FXhome had better put all that stuff back into their website if they want us to bite. There are reasons Hitfilm was attractive, but if those reasons are gone hen it's not as attractive.

  • triforcefx
    triforcefx United StatesPosts: 1,623 Moderator

    @RBP1 it’s still possible to do the lasers, phasers, lightsabers, and star fields in the Free version.

    3d models however, will be watermarked in the free version… you’ll need to upgrade to a Pro Perpetual or Pro Subscription license to get access to the 3D model stuff.

    3D models used to require Pro or a $50 add-on, they were not available in base Express (unless you used them watermarked).

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*
    Ok, that's fine. Here's the thing: I go to the pricing page to compare versions, and I see nothing that says "this version comes with fire, this version allows lightsabers, and this version allows 3D models". I understand the VFX packs are no longer sold, but should one just assume that all the VFX still exists? And that they were integrated into the tiered versions? And should someone have to keep downloading and paying for downloads only to discover that what they want to do isn't in that tier? Again, I'm ok with the subscription plans, but the old website was pretty clear about what VFX were offered, and in which package they were available in. If those explicit listings exist, can you do me a favor and provide a link? I'm not finding that myself. And yes- I'm looking.
  • triforcefx
    triforcefx United StatesPosts: 1,623 Moderator

    @RBP1 yeah, the differences haven’t been clearly laid out yet, however it sounds like the staff has been working on a comparison. Hopefully that will be available soon!

    For now, your best option is to download and install under the Free plan, then scroll through the effects list. You can hover over the “Upgrade” button under any effect with it and you will get a pop-up telling you which tier you need to access that effect. (I know this isn’t an elegant solution, but it’s the best I’ve seen so far)

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*
    @triforcefx That’s an honest and fair enough answer. Appreciated. Thank you.
  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    Thing for me is that I was not yet a customer but was on the verge of pulling the trigger when this flip happened.

    So I don't have as much skin in the game as others. But what I see are all new ways to accept money... but a fraction of what you'll be getting for that money.

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast

    @RBP1 Well, the argument is that you're actually getting More for your money.

    The only issue is that you are now renting everything, instead of owning part of it.

  • Stargazer54
    Stargazer54 Posts: 3,801 Ambassador

    @alaska_vfx_filmer @RBP1 You can purchase a Perpetual license which you own and will continue to run as long as your computer supports it. Pretty much the same thing as the previous version of HF Pro.

    But if you want the Artlist assets, beyond what is included in the "Free" version of HF (which now replaces Express), then that's where the subscription comes in.

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    More of what though? The website doesn't say. Again- lots of ways to give them money... but not a lot of what you get for your money. It's relying on people to automatically know or assume what came before was still there. Somewhere. Again, I'm good with the new pay structure- just list the features.

    So far, the best solution I've seen (which comes from a moderator) is to download the free version, click on items and see which tier you need to get. That's not good look.

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast
    edited July 13

    @RBP1

    As @Stargazer54 says above, there is the Pro perpetual (same as old), Or you can basically rent Pro + Imerge + Artlist extras for $12.50/month, That includes everything, VS the old Express plan of buying add-on packs at $10-$50(?) a piece, and owning them forever.

    I'm still not sure what "Creator" level plan is, It looks to be less then Express + Add-ons under the old model.

    In short, you can assume that everything you see shown in the Hitfilm app is available under a "Pro" sub (or perpetual), plus the extras listed on the page.

    But if its "Creator" you're looking at, then yes, the only thing we have to go on is the advice you noted, as laid out by @triforcefx.

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    Why do people keep telling me about the different plans when I have said repeatedly that I'm ok with them?

    The different pay plans are not my issue.

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast

    @RBP1 I was not "telling you about the different plans", You seamed to be asking what was in them, I Quote:

    "More of what though? The website doesn't say. Again- lots of ways to give them money... but not a lot of what you get for your money"

    You did repeatedly state that you wished they would have a comprehensive list of the tier level differences. I was attempting to explain to the extent to the best of my abilities, not being staff, or moderator.

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    Here’s where I am coming from:

    I have seen a number of softwares in the past get sold / acquired by another company, lose features, and / or the new website doesn’t show the software’s features... and then the software vanishes from the ‘net a year later.

    And this new website looks just like those other ones.

    It’s just unfortunate that I’ll have to download the free version and scroll through its features and click on them to see if they even still exist any more. Based on experience, I don’t blindly trust everything still exists.

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast

    @RBP1 Ah, I see, I would be willing to bet large sums that all the same old Pro features are still there (for $$), after all, why would they remove value they had already worked to build? they have moved things from the free tier to the paid, but removing mainstay features entirely? probably not.

    But yes, I absolutely agree, If they want to bring in new users, (or reassure old ones) then we certainly need a new, comprehensive, and categorical features list matched to the price tiers.

  • Andy001z
    Andy001z Lord EarthPosts: 3,504 Ambassador

    @RBP1 I have been a user of Hitfilm since around 2012. In that time I have seen a lot of change and got to know the people behind the company. One thing I feel confident on is that Josh took the decided to sell the company, it was because it would allow the company to grow and offer more to the kind of people it has always prided itself on helping.

    Regarding the website change, at a recent meeting we (Ambassador community) had with Fxhome they where excited to share there fresh website, totally rebuilt. The old one had been built inhouse and was starting to creek. Do I think they might have done a better job on the comparison page, sure it could be better. Kirstie knows this and in the back ground they are working to get more information to us the users. It depends on what you think it more important, a totally spot on website or a delayed product launch, when your community is already getting nervous about the lack of commination.

  • KirstieT
    KirstieT Posts: 1,271 Staff

    Just to let you all know that we are aware some users are struggling to directly compare plans or compare to HitFilm Express. We are releasing blog posts on this asap (just delayed by the wordpress at the moment).

    The previous feedback we had was that our website was too complicated, with an overwhelming amount of information for someone to absorb before making a decision. We tried simplifying it down for this reason, but it's clear now the places that people are struggling, so we will correct that. It is coming, and sorry for the inconvenience!!

  • KirstieT
    KirstieT Posts: 1,271 Staff

    hey guys - here is a blog post that allows you to compare the effects and features between HitFilm Express and HitFilm (Free): https://fxhome.com/blog/compare-hitfilm-express-to-the-brand-new-hitfilm-free

    And here is a news article that allows you to compare the effects and features between the different subscription plans: https://fxhome.com/news/compare-features-and-effects-in-hitfilm-subscription-plans-free-creator-and-pro

    Hope this clears some things up :)

  • RBP1
    RBP1 Posts: 9 Just Starting Out*

    People found the old website to complicated? That surprises me. I mean, initially there was a little confusion but after really reading it I thought it was pretty concise.


    Thanks for the blog posts! I will look at the links.


    -Chris

  • Andersen01498
    Andersen01498 Posts: 1,190 Enthusiast

    This proves a huge point to the Express users that paid for the Add on packs^^^. I don't know the stats of how many HF express users paid for the add-ons but this comparison is really screwing those users badly. Really, taking away 4k as many others have mentioned. I am not supporting that decision one bit. A free user will quickly jump ship to Resolve if they want to export their videos to 4k. If I was an HF express user, I would definitely jump ship. These are not improvements by any means.

  • alaska_vfx_filmer
    alaska_vfx_filmer AlaskaPosts: 556 Enthusiast

    @KirstieT I suggest you pin those blog posts to the top of the forum discussions page, I assume a lot of users wont see the the blog posts, but will come to the forum threads to ask.

  • KirstieT
    KirstieT Posts: 1,271 Staff

    @alaska_vfx_filmer This is a great suggestion, thank you - I will do that

    @Andersen01498 I'm sorry that you feel that way - as mentioned elsewhere, we undertook a huge amount of discovery before making these decisions. We do know that unfortunately these changes will not be popular with everyone. However those with HitFilm Express who have add-ons will not see support for HitFilm Express go - they can continue to use that very powerful software for as long as they'd like (this works too if they aren't so invested in the new features, as is your experience).

  • Kramer
    Kramer Posts: 1 Just Starting Out*

    @KirstieT is there any way you guys can allow Express users who paid for add-ons to keep those add-ons with the new free version? I feel like this is the only fair way to do this. Apologies if this has been recommended multiple times already.