Hardware Upgrade choices

lordjosue
lordjosue Posts: 34 Enthusiast

My sysytem currently has a Ryzen 7 2700x and a GTX 1080 Ti. I am thinking of upgrading to a Ryzen 9 5950x when it launches, but i don't know if Hitfilm will take advantage of those extra cores, higher frequencies and IPC improvements. I also wanted to upgrade my gpu, but any choice other than the RTX 3090 will get me less vram, and those gpus are quite expensive for what they can offer. Also, would Hitfilm take advatange of the raw power those new gpus have? I don't know how most benchmark results translate over to Hitfilm, and now that OpenGl4 is going to be in the next update, i am even more confused.

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,994 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2020

    What's the reason for upgrading the CPU?

    i don't know if Hitfilm will take advantage of those extra cores

    No, I can't see a single scenario where it would. Note: Threads. Programs use threads, and that's already a 16 thread CPU, compared to the 32 thread CPU - that's a lot of threads. Especially when factoring in a GPU hardware decoded workflow.

     higher frequencies and IPC improvements

    Yes.


    What's the reason for upgrading GPU?

    What's your current RAM?

    How large are your projects?

    Lots of VFX?

    What's your storage solution & configuration?

  • lordjosue
    lordjosue Posts: 34 Enthusiast
    edited November 2020

    Mostly the reason i would upgrade any hardware is to get the most out of my system. I want to be able to edit as smoothly as i can, with the fastest render times i can get. I don't know which effects are GPU accelerated, but i know that most are still cpu based, so that's why i thought of upgrading the cpu first. However, i don't actually know if Hitfilm will create a bottleneck, since the Ryzen 7 i currently have is already decent.

    I have 32 gb of RAM, so i think i am fine there, but what i will definitely buy is another ssd. I have a 3tb hdd and a 240gb nvme ssd, so all the project files i use are located on the slow disk. Even the cache of pre rendered stuff is on the hdd. I think that could be a bottleneck too.

    My projects vary a lot. Sometimes they are just a bunch of colour graded clips that last 20 minutes, sometimes i am doing motion graphics and vfx with the help of blender. So, yeah, i want to accelerate everything as much as my budget can afford.

  • lordjosue
    lordjosue Posts: 34 Enthusiast

    Also, i am a big PC gamer, so whenever i am not editing, i am playing. That's why upgrading my pc always feels juicy lol. I can taste all those extra fps.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,294 Power User

    You have an incorrect assumption. All Effects are GPU based.

    The 1080ti is still a solid card. The 3080 (for example) is about 50% faster for your $700. But you're correct that the HDD is a bottleneck - especially for 4k. I'm thinking another SSD would significantly speed things up, and at a lower cost than a GPU upgrade.

    That said, if you get contrasting advice from me and kevin, listen to him.

  • EvilDaystar
    EvilDaystar Posts: 305 Enthusiast
    edited November 2020

    I feel you. My i5 6600k and gtx 970 are really struggling with newish games like Borderlands 3, Outer Worlds ... I'm building a new rig in March (so I can Play Cyberpunk 2077) and going to a 3070 ... maybe a 3080.

    Essentially, I'm taking the Cyberpunk recommendations for medium with RTX enabled and building my rig based off that lol.

    To be fair, my current rig does really well for HitFilm but I edit mostly talking heads at 1080p24 so ... yeah ... not very demanding.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,994 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2020

    I want to be able to edit as smoothly as i can

    In this day and age, with the advent of hardware decoding, thats become a non issue. A PC worth $200 in components, can and will edit H.264 1080p/FHD (assuming with sub sampling and not 4:2:2) smoothly with no lag. Like wise for H. 265 4k/UHD (starting next month when the update drops for Express and Pro 16).

    with the fastest render times i can get.

    Rent Pixar's renderfarm. Jokes aside. This is a unrealistic expectation to have. Every 6 months there is something faster, so its a constant chase for the "best".

    I don't know which effects are GPU accelerated

    All of them.

    i know that most are still cpu based

    This has never been the case in HitFilm. The only 'exceptions' would be physics calculations and/in movement based effects, e.g keyframe, particle simulator, playback (no longer due hardware decoding), etc.

    i don't actually know if Hitfilm will create a bottleneck, since the Ryzen 7 i currently have is already decent.

    Your CPU is not acting as a bottleneck in HitFilm. The IPC, clocks and thread count are more than sufficient. You wouldnt even notice a difference if you 'upgraded', since again most of everything is GPU, VRAM, RAM, Storage. CPU nowadays can be taken out of the equation because affording a 4-6-8 core CPU with SMT will only run you like $200-$300.

    What this will come down to is your use case and personal workflow. For instance, i am using a first gen Ryzen 1400, it has 8 threads and that is not enough for me. The reason that its not enough for me is because its choking when im multitasking, e.g a game, photo editor, HitFilm, render in either is enough of a load to cause stutter, programs crashing and poor utilization due the windows scheduler cant prioritize everything all the time. That to me is a bottleneck. Sometimes multitasking is a case of adding more RAM, but in my case I have enough, so its my personal scenario, its always on a case-by-case basis.

    I dont consider a 5-10% decrease in render times or general workflow reduction to be a bottleneck by current hardware, because newer CPU's will be more efficient per watt than the last, amounting to an increase in IPC. This is something that cannot be avoided. I think that the word bottleneck is often misrepresented/misunderstood, but maybe thats just me.

    I have 32 gb of RAM, so i think i am fine there

    Probably a good assumption. However efficiency wise, which is what youre after I guess, is that 32 GB is bare minimum in 4k Editing and VFX workflows due to the large file sizes and real time caching. The less you access the page file, the less delays in your workflow youre going to have. Its hard to measure for a layman, but easy for anyone to appreciate.

    what i will definitely buy is another ssd

    That would be a good first step in this whole ordeal. The drive configuration should be >

    Nvme - OS & Programs.

    SSD - Project files and media.

    SSD 2 (in an ideal world) - Cache / Cache database, e.g a 240 GB or perhaps a bit larger for that purpose only.

    HDD - export / bulk storage of unused/not in use/to be used media. It doesnt matter that this drive is "slow", itll not be outpaced by a media encoder, not even close.

    Also, i am a big PC gamer, so whenever i am not editing, i am playing. That's why upgrading my pc always feels juicy lol. I can taste all those extra fps.

    I'm kind of the same way so that is understandable. Except of course within my realm/needs and budget. My Ryzen 1400 and GTX 1660 has no issues running my simracing titles, or other light low demanding games like Rocket League and the occasional newer single player campaign experience. I am looking into upgrading to VR, which would require me to upgrade some components, but again, its a matter of needs vs wants.

    The GTX 1080 Ti that youre currently using is probably faster than what 90% of the HitFilm user base are using. This particular topic alone could be expanded to several pages long.

    Im merely offering my opinion, and Im not trying to sway you into buying or not buying something based on any of this. Perhaps you have a better foundation to work off of now than what you had before. Hopefully allowing you to have a more critical mindset, as youre going into it with a more educated view and are even more mindful of the various companies offering their "opinions" based on their marketing campaigns.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Posts: 4,376 Expert

    All Effects are GPU based.

    Mostly but not entirely true. Some have all or significant CPU dependencies. A list I made a long time ago. Probably still accurate enough.

    • Auto Color, Auto contrast, Auto levels
    • levels histogram
    • Channel time shift
    • derez
    • echo
    • fire
    • jitter
    • motion blur effect. (layer feature is different and I don't know about that one)
    • trails
    • rolling shutter
    • speed
    • stutter
    • time displacement
    • time reverse

    A common theme here is effects that are resampling or using frames as a whole are CPU bound. e.g. Speed, motion trails, echo, time reverse, etc.

    Then there are some things using optical flow techniques which seems to be CPU based in Hitfilm. rolling shutter and motion blur.

    Level Histo seems to have a CPU dependency on the Histo update.

    All these things that transfer function to the CPU from "normal" GPU dataflow likely entail GPU texture buffer readback which is a Hitfilm achilles heal.

    As mentioned the particle simulator is part CPU and part GPU.

    Of course even pure GPU effects are driven by the CPU. The CPU is what is telling the GPU what to do and when to do it. The organization is low work relative to the heavy lifting the GPU does, but it is possible for a very slow CPU to not be able to drive a very fast GPU fast enough. Possible but unlikely.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,294 Power User

    @NormanPCN you'll be able to scratch Levels Histogram off the list. Maybe others. One effect of HF16 moving to OpenGL 4 is ALL Effects filters were re-coded and the new Levels Histogram doesn't read back to the graph unless the effect has focus. It's much snappier now.

    Yeah, "all" was oversimplification.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Posts: 4,376 Expert

    and the new Levels Histogram doesn't read back to the graph unless the effect has focus

    I remember suggesting something like that. Mostly from Vegas features, where they had check options to disable update of some things during playback. Levels, scopes, ?.