Why doesn't HitFilm update New shape data from mocha?

PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast
edited November 2015 in Post-production techniques

I was messing about with this old BMW advert, and once I'd got the first car coming in @10s, I decided to bring in the second for the wipe @15s and that's when I ran into problems trying to add the second layer, as well as tidy up the first one.



How do I get Hitfilm to realise I just made a change/improvement to the shape data, or added a new layer etc. after I exported the file from Mocha Hitfilm?

I've tried Right Click and reloading all the assets in Hitfilm and it makes no difference.
I've tried closing everything and just reopening the Hitfilm project file.

I've tried exiting Hitfilm, leaving mocha open, saving there again (in case Hitfilm was blocking the file in some way) then reopening Hitfilm and reloading the project. Still no change. Just the original shape data I first saved out.

I can import the composite file with the new shape data into a second composite and then cut'n'paste the layers back into the original composite, after deleting the originals, then delete the spare composite, but then I have to remake any changes to the layers again. I've also got duplicated assets that I don't need in the Media slot and trying to tidy them up inevitably deletes the wrong thing, as it's not clear what's what with all the duplicated names.

So, how do I get Hitfilm to simply 'refresh' the new mocha shape data form the file I exported?

Also, how best to open mocha Hitfilm to do this, as it can only be opened from within Hitfilm?

Currently, I do 'New solve with Mocha Hitfilm', but once there, I reload the most recent project file, which works, but seems clunky.

One last thing: even though I've deleted all but one composite, on Export, I'm presented with a list of all the ones I created and deleted, all with the same names.

Comments

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

    There isn't any kind of dynamic refreshing link between the products. If you make changes you'll need to re-export from mocha and re-import into HitFilm. However, you don't then need to copy and paste entire layers - you can just copy the mask out of the imported layer and paste it into your existing composite shot, retaining any changes/additions you've made in the meantime.

    mocha HitFilm is opened from the New menu in the Media panel.

    Something I'm very keen for us to work on with Imagineer is the ability to copy data to the clipboard. That way you'd be able to copy the shape inside mocha and then tab back to HitFilm and simply paste it onto the desired layer, bypassing the export/import/transferring workflow, which is indeed a bit fiddly.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,299 Ambassador

    *like* at Simon 

  • PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast
    edited November 2015

    @SimonKJones , @Triem23 Thanks and I am already opening mocha as you suggested : New > Solve with mocha Hitfilm, then reloading the most recent project to continue making changes to the shape data. They're just ignored later.

    I understand there is no dynamic link, even an undynamic link would be good, but I meant that having saved out mocha_data.hfcs from mocha once and imported it into Hitfilm, why if I make a change and re-export it from mocha, does Hitfilm not even look at the new file, whatever I do?
    There is a 'Reload' option right there....

    I think I found a bug with the whole 'Reload' thing, BTW.

    I tried with a simple .jpg. Added it to the project and slapped it on the middle of the screen. Then open the image in an editor and scribbled on it. It immediately showed up in the Media Panel with the scribble on it with no intervention from me, but no amount of 'Right Click>Reload' or switching views in the project would update it in the project itself. I even Exported the video and....it had the old image on it.

    So, I saved and reloaded the project. Still no change. Exported the video again and....it still had the old image on it.

    So, I closed and reopened Hitfilm, reloaded  the project and ...Tada! Image changed. Exported the video again and image also updated there.

    Why did I have to do that? Did it create a proxy file for the image, but only at startup? And why not when the project was reloaded with Hitfilm already open?

    Anyway, even if I had to go through all that with the updated mocha_data.hfcs file from mocha, it would at least be progress, but it doesn't even look at that file again. Ever.

    Just to test this further:
    I deleted the mocha_data.hfcs file completely, closed and reopened Hitfilm and loaded the project. It didn't even notice. I was able to export the video perfectly. When I did the same with the image file, it noticed and prompted me to locate it again.

    So what's the 'Right Click>Reload' option supposed to be used for and why doesn't Hitfilm reload the .hfcs file, but does reload the .jpg, but then only at initial Hitfilm startup?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to be consistent with all file types at all times?

    Thanks for the suggestion about just copying over the mask data though.

  • WillBellJrWillBellJr Website User Posts: 29 Just Starting Out

    Good catch on this, hopefully the team will get this ironed out!

    -Will

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    edited November 2015

    Once a composite shot is imported into a project, it exists inside the project - just like any composite shot made internally in that project. As soon as you've imported it, from that point onwards it's no different to you having made the comp entirely within that project. That's how it's always worked since HF1.

    It would be more logical for the 'reload' button to not appear for composite shots, as it doesn't really apply based on the current workflow.

    That said, I agree that being about to reload comps in the manner you describe would be really useful - especially in the case of mocha, but also when working with templates generally. That may well be quite a fundamental change, but I'll get it logged so it can be poked. It's not something that anybody has mentioned or suggested before (to my knowledge), but it would be cool.

    Your observation about the media not refreshing is a completely separate issue but does indeed sound odd. What image editor were you using?

  • PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast
    edited November 2015

    @SimonKJones Well, any of those fixes would probably be fine.

    While you're tidying up loose ends: you can also select the imported mocha Composite asset in the Media tab, Right-Click and 'Make Composite Shot' and it does....nothing. Probably a good idea, or it might go into a death spiral, but again: no need to be there.

    Image editor is Paint Shop Pro 6...which is, yikes! over 16 years old, (copyright notice says 1991-1999), but still works great and is blindingly fast on today's hardware.

    Image was a 1596x897 .JPG I had on the desktop. Grabbed it, scribbled on it, saved it out with the same filename as a .JPG again, dragged it into the project and onto the timeline. I scaled it down to about 25% because that BMW advert I was messing with (at the top of this thread) is only 640x360 and it was too big to fit on screen completely.  Just did it again and it still doesn't update in the project. Also tried Relink, which was even weirder...

    Relink to the same image and it's still not updating in the project.

    Relink to a different image and the project version does update to that.

    Relinked back to the first image and...it returns to the same unchanged image with no scribble in the project, although Media tab (and Trimmer) shows it with scribble on.

    So, I then grabbed it and added it to the project a second time and...that copy also has no scribble, although it's oversized because its scale is still 100%.

    Scribbled on it more ,saved it again and closed Paint Shop Pro (in case it had 'ownership' of the file)...and still no change. Then Relinked to another .JPG (projects updates) and back again (project updates back to no scribble, Media and Trimmer show the scribble).

    I could record a movie of all this if you like, but I'd imagine my setup isn't unique and you could replicate it yourself.

    Some cache file not getting a 'dirty' flag set, or something blah blah, coding stuff?

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

    Very useful info, thanks - the devs are investigating further. 

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