Corner Pinning

Ireground
Ireground Website User Posts: 75

I know I won't get an answer to this question but I'm asking anyway;

Will there be proper corner pinning in HF4 (including Mocha HF)? It's the only thing keeping me from jumping ship from AE.

Comments

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    There is corner pinning in Hitfilm Pro 3. Quad Warp maps a plane to points. Those points can totally be tracked points. Since a "Corner Pin" is... Quad Warping to tracked points, well, Hitfilm corner pins properly. 

  • Ireground
    Ireground Website User Posts: 75

    I know, I've tried it,  but tracking four points independently is way more complicated than it should be. There should be a perspective corner pin option in the tracking options, and we should also be able to export corner pin data from Mocha AE.  I mean, it exports camera solves, why not corner pins? 

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    Well, for Mocha you'd have to ask Imagineer. That said, based on the cost of the Mocha add-on for Hitfilm Express, Imagineer isn't getting more than $50 for Mocha Hitfilm. Given that Mocha Pro retails for $1500,Imagineer likely figured that camera solves and mask exports was probably more than $50 of functionality. 

    You must do a hell of a lot of corner pinning to jump to a $700/year subscription, plus the extra $200 for Element 3D (for 3D models) and another $400 for Particular (particles). To save a thousand bucks I would just track the darn points! I mean a roto brush, puppet warp, or liquify tool, those I can see spending the money on, but corner pins? Meh, that's just me. :-)  ;-) 

    Unfortunately I doubt we'll get word on HF4 until a month before it's release, and, based on past release schedules, best logical  guess for HF4 is late 2016,unless FXHOME surprises us. 

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast
    edited October 2015

    @Triem23 Didn't @rgbii write up a program to take the AE keyframe data Mocha exports and convert it to a HitFilm composite shot?

    At any rate here's my prediction for how this plays out - You have the bundled AE and HitFilm versions of Mocha, Mocha Plus and Mocha Pro. Mocha Plus adds quite a bit of functionality for AE users but not much for HitFilm 3 Pro users so if there is ever going to be an option to export a Quad Warp composite shot it's going to be in the paid versions only.

    EDIT: Here's the thread I was thinking of concerning importing keyframes from file

    http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/5518/importing-keyframes-from-file

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    Rgbii may have, but that would still require Mocha Plus or Pro--both paid versions. For purposes of this discussion I waa deliberately staying with Mocha Hitfilm.  Since you tagged rgbii, he'll answer. 

    Although--and I am stupid for not remembering this earlier--when mocha exports solve and position data, it exports  center and CORNERS data for each surface. So, track the plane you want corner pinned and mocha exports the correct corner points, ready to quad warp. 

    There's a mocha trick I picked up from imagineer. Track a single frame,  use Dope sheet to copy that data across the whole shot. Camera solve... Now you've lied to mocha to give it a "static" camera, but now you can track objects (over the static camera) for export to Hitfilm. This is great for corner pin solves. 

     Axel covers using mocha to object track after camera solves in this tutorial. 

     The webinar with the "static cam" then export object data tutorial is here (about an hour in. But this entire Webinar is great). 

  • Ireground
    Ireground Website User Posts: 75

    Thanks for the replies people.

    Yes, I do a lot of corner pinning, that's why it pisses me off to pay for AE just for that.

    I've tried tracking the four points independently, but I couldn't figure out how to assign them to the four Quad Warp points. Are there any tutes on how to do that?

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    @Ireground - If you've tracked the 4 points independently already then under the Quad Warp controls you can parent each corner to the appropriate tracked point. Each corner has a "Use Layer" option for position so just use the drop down to select the tracked point for that corner.

    Triem23 pointed out a good way to use Mocha to track all 4 corners at once so with that you could track just like you're used to but instead of being able to copy to clipboard and paste you'll have to export to a HitFilm composite shot and then import that into HitFilm. When you do you'll have 5 points, the 4 corners and a center point. Then all you have to do is parent the Quad warp corner position controls to the corresponding points. Not quite as easy as AE and Mocha but still a lot better than tracking each corner independently. 

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,445 Enthusiast
    edited October 2015

    The only fly in the ointment is that Quad Warp wanders about quite a lot, even when those corner points are virtually static, compared to those same points just having some text applied to them, which stays pretty much rock solid.

    Using Hitfilm 1 (or 2) point tracking instead of Mocha to track the points - to see where to point the finger - reveals that it's caused by ....Quad Warp.

    I suspect some too-early rounding is being done on those coordinates in the Quad Warp effect and the result is jittery corners. Plus, the way it samples/renders the textures themselves is also pretty wacky and not useful for detailed textures, or those against a contrasting background colour.

    Just track a white plane against a dark background and see what the edges look like.

    https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/6477/quad-warp-points-wandering-about-problem-user-error

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    Oddly enough I have only used Quad Warp twice. First time was a corner pin with individually tracked points, second time was to place perspective elements into a Composite Shot that was the "film" for a Camera Projection shot. 

  • KoDuty
    KoDuty Website User Posts: 111
  • Ireground
    Ireground Website User Posts: 75

    Thanks for the replies people. I'll try that. I absolutely need corner pinning.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    @KoDuty, I mean you can use Quad Warp TO Corner Pin.

    Honestly a Quad Warp and Corner Pin are the exact same effect with a different name, when you think about it. ;-)

  • KoDuty
    KoDuty Website User Posts: 111
    edited October 2015

    that's really nice  I didn't know Quad Warp can pin with tracked points.

    Tks @Triem23 so much!

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    I didn't either. I forget who brought it up first, Simon, Axel, Aladdin or Stargazer 

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    @Triem23 I think it was one of those moments when there was a lengthy conversation about how to emulate corner pinning in HitFilm and Axel made one of his famous "Or you could just use...." posts.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Website User Posts: 4,063 Enthusiast

    The main page for Hitfilm mentioned the Quad Warp enhancement in V3 to work as a corner pin tool.

    http://hitfilm.com/pro/whats-new

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,956 Ambassador

    @NormanPCN no-one reads press releases or manuals. ;-) 

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