Issue: MORE zooming increments for timeline scaling needed

RehanWastiRehanWasti Website User Posts: 12 Just Starting Out
edited October 2015 in HitFilm

Greets.

This is not a "request" but an actual working issue.

The ZOOMING options in HitFilm are not working as needed in the field by editors.

Currently it JUMPS dispropotionately from singular frames straight into minutes. This makes all editing a pain.

Please allow us to have more increments while editing for the ZOOM options for:

  • SHORTCUT: Increase Timeline Scale
  • SHORTCUT: Decrease Timeline Scale
  • Timeline Button: Increment Scale
  • Timeline Button Decrement Scale.

Additionally, please also allow a feature for us to DEFINE the frame jumps for both (shortcuts & timeline buttons). Adobe Premiere has a similar feature as well.

Many thanks.

 edit (in response to posts below): Any editor worth his salt will tell you within 5 minutes of using Hitfilm that there is something wrong with the way the ZOOM controls work.

And the fact that this has not been fixed by version 3.x "PRO" can lead to the conclusion that devs never use Hitfilm for editing themselves.

Comments

  • PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast

    ++++11111eleventy1 this, for sure.

    I'd also like it to zoom in and out using the mouse wheel, centred around the current frame, which I use all the time on Sony Movie Studio (Vegas is the same, so maybe @Triem23 could weigh in here?). With that I zoom out, click new position on timeline by spotting the clip thumbnail, zoom right in again in, all in under a second. Bingo!

    In Hitfilm it scrolls the layers up and down. So OK, I don't mind holding down Shift, or ALT or CTRL or something too. Or making the layers scroll need that. Better yet: Make it a selectable option?

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast

    Yup, +1 for this too, Vegas handles this way more efficiently. Probably best to put it on the wishlist though, if it isn't already on there.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,307 Ambassador

    Pretty sure it's on the Wishlist. Yes, +2^64 on liking a Vegas-style scroll zoom, with a disclaimer that UI interaction is partly personal preference. If the dev team is torn between, say, bezier keyframes or zoom hotkeys, then forget r the **** hotkey! 

  • chibichibi Website User Posts: 257 Just Starting Out
  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,950 Enthusiast

    I have also requested this. I did it in a letter to customer service with a number of other items.

    Keeping the the "Hitfilm way", I think the number of increments in the zoom scale needs to be larger. Much larger.

    Things like this often make me wonder if people who write the software ever try to use it, because who would put up with quirky things like the zoom control when they actually have control over its implementation. I mean were are talking about minutes of programming. Even if the zoom scale is always fixed levels from in to max, going from 10 increments to 20 is simple and should not be a big deal.

    Hitfilm really does have features, but they are often very fiddly or tiring to use. It makes us jump through hoops verses allowing us to easily make it jump through the hoops to execute our vision. My biggest pet peeve right now is the Controls panel not remembering it state across open comps. Hitfilm makes me work with embedded comps for particle texture layers and it takes 5 mouse moves and clicks to get down to "Movement" in the particle sim every time the property tree open/close state gets forgotten. That gets old very fast.

     

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    I'd love to see a Vegas style zoom with a lot more increments too! In the mean time though there are a few things worth mentioning.

    One is control + wheel does sort of zoom in and out centered on the cursor. The problem is you have to scroll through all the layers first so if you're working on the bottom layer you have to ctrl+wheel through all the layers until you're at the top and keep the wheel going to zoom in then release ctrl and scroll back down to the layer you were working on. Definitely not ideal.

    The second is you might want to try X-Mouse Button Control. It works with the first 5 buttons/controls of any mouse. You can override default behaviors, simulate keystrokes, create custom actions etc etc and the profiles work on a per application basis so everything can be a normal default in Vegas but operate completely differently when HitFilm is the active application. Oh and it's free/donation ware.

    Third is MMO mice rock! (Thanks for the tip Triem23) An MMO mouse will have its own software and a ton of buttons to program so you can set up all kinds of custom actions and profiles and can go a long way towards improving things.

  • RehanWastiRehanWasti Website User Posts: 12 Just Starting Out

    I agree with NormanPCN.

    Any editor worth his salt will tell you within 5 minutes of using Hitfilm that there is something wrong with the way the ZOOM controls work.

    And the fact that this has not been fixed by version 3.x "PRO" can lead to the conclusion that devs never use Hitfilm for editing themselves.

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    @NormanPCN To put that into perspective a bit, it might be the devs are actually NOT in full control over the implementation of the zoom if they're using third-party libraries for the UI. I know that in the software my company is developing, the UI is built using a library that is amazing in that it brings a ton of features and widgets with it so the devs don't have to build everything themselves, but comes at the price of not having full control over how everything behaves (or at least, without having to dig into the source code of the library). The zoom slider seems to be fairly simple though, but who knows what string are attached to that.

    But, yeah, there are still a lot of rough edges to HitFilm's UX, definitely on your side there.

    @Aladdin4d Oh yes, having an MMO mouse and also keyboard for editing is pure bliss! I also have used X-Mouse Button Control, nice little program indeed. I don't use it anymore since Win10 brought the ability to scroll in the window you're actually hovering over, which is one thing XMBC is also able to do, along with lots of other stuff.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,307 Ambassador

    Yeah, I do like the MMO mouse. I use that in tandem with a Contour Shuttle Pro, so, boy, do I have a lot of potential hotkeys! Although the Shuttle Pro and mouse duplicate key binding across devices. Basically, whether on tge keyboard, the mouse or the Shuttle Pro my most used shortcuts are only a button away. 

    Yes, I also, also agree with there being a few rough edges on the HF UI, although, overall I do find the software fairly quick andceasy to navigate. I actually overall prefer the Hitfilm UI to AE and Boris FX. But, yes, there is room for improvement. The zoom is one, being able to assign colors to layer groups is another, persistent Controls panels when shifting Comp Shots is third, but, otherwise I don't really have any issues there. I'm pretty easy to please, however. All you have to do is be less annoying than the Blender UI... 

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,950 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    @Robin I understand where you are coming from but I do understand GUI widgets. In no way does a GUI library have such high level function about NLE timeline zoom. A slider is just a slider and the app has full control over what its values mean.

    Sliders are one of the simpler GUI controls/widgets. They typically have a lower and upper bound and normally an increment. What those values spit out by the GUI widget mean is undefined. Sliders used elsewhere in Hitfilm are not restricted to 10 increments like the zoom.

    I may be a hack hobbyist by video use but by profession I am a software developer. I developed tools for software developers. Compiler, linker, debugger and cross platform SDKs including a GUI toolkit encapsulation. It targeted Windows, Linux/Solaris/AIX (aka GTK+) and the Mac. Pretty familiar with a lot of GUIs out there. I wanted the encapsulation to always look like a native app, so my GUI API translated to the native APIs.  GTK and Qt apps always look like themselves since they actually draw everything. I'm not a Qt guy but I did evaluate it when I decided to go with GTK in our move to the Unix world back in the day. It appears Hitfilm is using Qt and maybe something above that using Qt as its base.

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    @NormanPCN I'm a software developer myself, and I agree with you on the most part, I know that a slider normally should be easy to control. What I'm saying is that I regularly hear stories from our main UI developers (who do also work with QT, by the way) about quirks in the library exactly like this - you think it should easily work, but for some reason, it doesn't. This, and the fact that the zoom still works this way in HitFilm lead me to assume there might be something else involved that prevents a solution as simple as just increasing the increment. Of course it might very well just be an oversight, but from my experience it could be more tricky than one would think on first glance.

    By the way, impressive stuff you're doing! Is there any chance there's something openly available to take a look at? Just asking out of curiosity.

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,950 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015
    • " Is there any chance there's something openly available to take a look at? Just asking out of curiosity."

    Sadly no. I don't own the technology anymore. We sold ourselves to our biggest customer about 9 years ago and then worked as employees for 8 more years. They were in Germany and we in Los Angeles.

    "Impressive" is probably a bit too powerful a word, but thanks. I never developed it to that level and this was more than 15 years ago. It had what we needed as we needed it a point in time. It certainly laid out the framework to move forward. For example, initially it had no graphics drawing primitives.  Text is not "graphics" in my terminology. We had a customer who wanted to port his 3D ray tracing app from Windows to Linux and he added some graphics primitives to the library. Well, I worked with him and fleshed out his stuff more generically and voila, the API now had graphics.

    I never fleshed out my "tree" control to be able to easily do something like the Hitfilm controls panel. That would have been work on Windows, but pretty easy in GTK. That was something I found was common across Windows/GTK/Mac. Feature A might be a handshake on one but a fist fight on the other and feature B would typically be the other way around.

    One major advantage to defining your own encapsulation API for GUI, Threads, Files, Config settings, Interprocess communication and so on, is that quirks/restrictions are your own fault so to speak. In reality they should cease to exist once known. Of course a user, e.g. you, can say my API definition stupid and/or nearsighted and this is perfectly valid. I can't count the times I said, "what moron wrote this" while using my software, and the answer was of course me!

    • "What I'm saying is that I regularly hear stories from our main UI developers..."

    Understood and agreed. Not so much personal experience, since we did for ourselves, but since we sold and supported developers I have heard stories across the gamut.

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    Interesting still! Coming from Germany myself, might I know that company you sold yourself to? Or are you not allowed to talk about that? 

    I can relate to that feature A/B across platforms thing. In mobile app development this also applies. Just one thing, multithreading for example - a breeze on Windows, but a nightmare on Android... 

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,950 Enthusiast

    @Robin Germany connection...it's a small world. I had an interesting small world moment in Berlin. I was at the Brandenburg Gate and I was wearing a NASCAR M&M's T-shirt. A guy from Australia sees that and walks over to talk to me. He worked for M&M's Australia, was trying to get M&M's Australia to sponsor racing there.

    Saperion was who we sold to. They were in Berlin even back to the West Berlin days. Going back that far they were Liebing & Ullfors. Saperion was purchased by Lexmark a couple of years ago. Specifically the Perceptive Software division, Lexmark Enterprise software or whatever name they are going by these days. Lexmark is in the US but the Saperion folks remain in Berlin.

    At our biggest we were 5 people at our smallest it was just Rich and I. We were two parts. The development tools side and the CAE side. We had a logic simulator. Took circuit schematics and simulated the circuit without needing to build it. The development tools were Modula-2, Pascal and Ada95. We did have a few interesting customers using our development tools. US DOE Nuclear reactors have fault tree software developed with our tools. White House and US Marines nuclear weapons security systems. Very interesting meetings with that CEO and stories about Bill Gates, Lou Gerstner (IBM CEO) and also some wicked cool "toys" in their security test labs. They did not build the hardware. Just the software that controlled the "toys". US Army theater logistics software. DAMMS - Dept of the Army Movement Management Systems.

     

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast

    Yeah, lexmark rings a bell, primarily known for their printers though (at least here in Germany).

    That's some interesting things you did, and some big names too... We're developing IT process management software, nothing I'd call particularly interesting. Stumbling across some big names too now and then but nothing that (seemingly) personal :D

  • RehanWastiRehanWasti Website User Posts: 12 Just Starting Out
    edited July 2016

    Regardless of what we may "think" is hard or easy for the devs. We still NEED this in order to avoid massive frustration when editing.

    Hitfilm should not make already stressful and time dependent client projects even more frustrating when it comes to simple tools like magnification.

    We need this issue fixed ASAP please.

    Many thanks.

  • vernhestandvernhestand Website User Posts: 4

    I hope this thread is not dead.  This is the SINGLE most frustrating aspect of this otherwise brilliant software.  Its like buying a Lamborghini that has no hinges on the hood.  I haven't purchased HF4 yet, and whether or not this is a fix in that version may make or break my decision.  PLEASE devs.  Hear the outcry of the people, your loyal proponents.

  • StormyKnightStormyKnight Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,726 Ambassador

    You may want to put this request into the 'wishlist' thread. The devs will see it there. They follow that list quite regularly.

    https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/38770/the-hitfilm-wishlist-what-features-do-you-want/p10

This discussion has been closed.