Where are the Scopes?

VegemiteVegemite Website User Posts: 5
edited September 2015 in Post-production techniques

Hi, I'm new to HF3Pro. It's a pretty impressive program, but has a few downers. One is the over-abundance of "muzzle flashes" and WW2 fx, for which I expect to have no use, but the really big issue is - THERE SEEMS TO BE NO SCOPES!!

As everyone knows, proper colour correction and grading is almost impossible without them. Can we hope to have this corrected, early? Please?

Comments

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,281 Ambassador

    You're correct--scopes are important, and Hitfilm 3 currently lacks them.

    NewBlue has some OpenFX Scopes in theirEssentials package that will run in Hitfilm. At this time that's the best option--until, of course, FxHome adds them.

    https://www.newbluefx.com/essentials

  • BobDiMarzioBobDiMarzio Website User Posts: 632 Just Starting Out
    edited September 2015

    Cliptoolz 

    http://hdcinematics.com/convert-V2.html

    And Black Magic resolve lite ( non-trivial learning curve)

    https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

    Both have scopes and both are free to use.

  • VegemiteVegemite Website User Posts: 5

    Thanks for the suggestions, Guys. Unfortunately, Cliptoolz has just closed down (apparently some dispute with Apple). And, yes, Resolve is a bit over the top. I shall look at New Blue as a last resort. There are some very good choices for Macs, but little or nothing for Windows. Perhaps BlackMagic UltraScope when I strike oil.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,281 Ambassador

    One thing about the NewBlue Essentials is it's a 24 plug in suite. Besides the scopes (and the scopes can be set to full frame, or just a region), of particular note are "Color Fixer Plus" which is an easy to use and good looking grade plug in different from anything Hitfilm has, and the Stabilizer will do a better job of smoothing out handheld footage than Hitfilm's tracker. The rest of the suite is unremarkable (tools similar to those in Hitfilm, already) but functional. 

    Resolve is good, but the NewBlue will let you grade in Hitfilm instead of exporting to Resolve. 

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    @VegemiteDali's Mustache is done by the same guy that did Cliptoolz and it's still available. Cliptoolz is still sort of available too. At the bottom right of the Cliptoolz page is a section titled "Trouble Downloading?" with an alternate link that's still working.

  • LuBeDaLuBeDa Website User Posts: 21
    edited September 2015

    Have i to buy the new blue essentials ultimate edition for 399$ to use scopes?

  • BobDiMarzioBobDiMarzio Website User Posts: 632 Just Starting Out
    edited September 2015

    Hmm I just Went to the Cliptoolz site and there was no problem in initiating a download.  (I use internet download manager)

    http://hdcinematics.com/convert-V2.html

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015
  • BobDiMarzioBobDiMarzio Website User Posts: 632 Just Starting Out
    edited September 2015

    @Aladdin4d

    Hmm the original download has become problematic.

    Go here:

    http://hdcinematics.com/convert-V2.html

     scroll down until you see this on the right side.

    Support

    ClipToolz applications are desigend to run on 64-bit Windows operating systems only!

    ClipToolz.com applications are provided as-is and have limited support.
    If you experience problems please  send a detailed e-mail 
    describing the problem and your usage. These software applications
    are not covered by any warranty nor guaranteed to work for your application.

    Trouble Downloading?

    I have had considerable trouble finding reliable download servers and am investigating
    possible alternatives. Please be patient, and if you cannot get a working download drop
    an email to [email protected].

    You can grab a copy of Convert V2 from my DropBox at
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/kawdm83gj28mq0k/ClipToolz-Convert-V2.msi?dl=0
    NOTE: Not currently working with Google Chrome - I'm looking into available alternatives.
    Get your own DropBox for free and download directly - dropbox.com

    Common Problems

    For problems with opening the application or for installation problems and errors, please check here
    for the most common problems and how to fix them.

    And you can still download the file from the drop box location.   

    I tried it and it worked this morning.

    Bob

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

     There's only one muzzle flash effect. :) I guess you're referring to some of the presets?

    No scopes as yet, but it's absolutely on the wishlist.

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,722 Ambassador

    @SimonKJones Here's another vote for scopes in HF.  

    As I move off my old editor, and now trying to love HF's editor its an irritating thing I find missing.

  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast

    I vote for less Star Wars related presets and more Star Trek related presets.

  • PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast

    @SimonKJones Is there a genuine problem with implementing Scopes in Hitfilm?

    It has been several years now, which is beginning to look faintly embarrassing . Scratch that, 'faintly' was a few years ago, now it's plain old embarrassing.

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

    @palacono - not at all, we've just been focusing on other features. But I absolutely take your point and know where you're coming from.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,281 Ambassador

    I note, in fairness, Final Cut didn't add scopes or curves until version 6. Just saying. 

    I also note that scopes are intensely useful, but Hitfilm started out more aimed at people uploading to YouTube, and internet video doesn't have to meet stringent legal IRE limits like broadcast does. 

    That said, scopes would be nice. :-) 

  • PalaconoPalacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,442 Enthusiast
    edited September 2015

    Sure, but it's not just legal limits, it's just good practice to get your footage to match, either by scene, lighting setup or camera, before you then start playing around with it any further; and not just match, but be neutral.

    I presume that's why there is the (slightly limited) colour matching feature in there, but its benefits are scuppered by the fact you can only match something to something else that you actually know very little about, other than what your eyes are telling you. Two wrongs do not make a right.  If the target audience is presumed to care so little about colour, why are they even working in a visual medium in the first place? It's like learning to play an untuned piano while wearing boxing gloves.

    Consider two possible choices in the developers planning meeting:
    Scopes or another Star Wars effect. Which one can you put on the front page? Well, that's that decision made then... :(

    But actually, accurate colour control deserves to be there too. But then again: we have a very limited set of export formats, so I'm still confused about who the target audience is.

    @SimonKJones I know this isn't a democracy, more of a benevolent dictatorship, but how about a wishlist that takes votes? Put up the top 20 wishes on a new page and have people vote on them for a month or so, then add the features in that order?

    If nothing else it'll tell you what your customers want, even if you hold over some of the good stuff to Hitfilm 4... ;)

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,281 Ambassador

    They have done two prize giveaway surveys in the last year. Methinks the priorities list is based off the results of that as the widest available data pool. :) 

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,945 Enthusiast

    I just assumed the scopes are on the back burner since Hitfilm is fundamentally a full range editor. The preview window display is always full range. Hitfilm does a full to video levels range adjustment on AVC/H.264/Youtube encode for proper playback levels. Those are our only playback output options. Image sequence encodes keep full range since presumably they are destined back to Hitfilm or something else where final work/grading will likely be done.

     Using scopes for uses beyond levels peeping is beyond my pay grade and maybe for a lot of Hitfilm'ers.

     

  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

    @Palacono - you don't need to convince me. Personally I really want to see scopes in the software. I'm 100% with you on this one.

    We've considered the vote-up system for prioritising features, but there's a few inherent issues there. For example, implementing features isn't just about how much they're requested - you also have to factor in complexity of implementation. Do you spend all your dev resources on a popular feature and have no time to do anything else, or do you implement a wider range of features to satisfy lots of different users, at the expense of not being able to do the big singular feature? It's a tricky balance.

    As for your point about a fancy Star Wars features versus scopes - we do have to consider commercial considerations. But, again, it's a balance. The free updates this year have been a mix of fun/crowd-pleasing stuff and more advanced features. If we were only focused on the crowd-pleasing stuff HitFilm's overall feature set would look very different.

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,722 Ambassador

    @SimonKJones Completely understand the considerations.  Sorry, if I may have sounded harsh.  

    Absence of scopes is not preventing me from doing my work.   Just look forward to having them in HF at some point.

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