Tracking Points still does not stop. When are you going to fix this?

Palacono
Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
edited July 2015 in HitFilm

Can you sort this out please? It's been reported many times before and it's just a joke. The same problem is also in HF3Express. I'm actually writing this message while HF3P is tracking in the background as it WILL NOT RESPOND TO THE  MOUSE!

It's so bad I use HF2E for 95% of my tracking because THAT WORKS!

But I now have some 4K video to track and, great... go and make a cup of tea, because once started it won't stop.

Windows 7 even fades it out and pops up a "This program is not responding" dialogue over the top of it and it STILL carries on tracking behind it. I can run and open other programs (I just opened up the browser to write this) and it is STILL GOING!

Whatever you did to break it, please roll back to a working version.

Comments

  • Ady
    Ady Staff Administrator, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,471 Staff

    Palacono - Sorry you are having issues with tracking, whilst I appreciate your frustrations this issue was looked into before but we could not reproduce the issue on any machine here.

    I'm very happy to look into the issue again, I believe it wasn't yourself that logged it before but if you could send me the footage you are having the issue with I will take a look at ASAP.

    Could you also supply your full system specs to me too please?

    OS: Windows 7
    CPU:
    MEMORY:
    GPU:
    SSD: Yes or No

    Thanks,
    Ady

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    __simon__ report it here: https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/comment/54435/#Comment_54435 but I commented that I also had it after update #5. I also think I've seen others mention it.

    Did his files not help you as the thread died after my post?

    It doesn't need any special file, although I've been using a mixture of GoPro MP4 (yes, I know all about the claims that it's not suitable for editing - every other editor I use doesn't have a problem with it though ) and Cineform files that are supposed to be more suitable for editing as they are essentially a load of 'I' frames.  When using GoPro Protune files, converting to Cineform is as many trips through an encoder as I want to make before export.

    Some light editing with .MP4 in Hitfilm is actually acceptable and near realtime and a bit of pre-rendering helps. It's only when tracking that it hits the brakes. I've experimented with DNxHD and, although it is faster, didn't seem that much better for the work and increased file sizes to use regularly.

    HF2E, HF3P and HF3E are very slow tracking MP4 files: taking anything up to 1 second per frame to process, but that's usually OK for the few places I need to use tracking. It acts like it's decoding every frame from the beginning of the entire file, then forgets and does it again or something. I can't understand why a scan of a small area adds so much overhead.

    This is different to tracking a Cineform file, which goes at about 10x as fast, so I use MP4 and HF2E on short sections, Cineform and HF2E on larger sections if the video is 1080p. But now I have 2.7k and 4k source video - which I'll output at 1080p - so I'm using HF3P and hit the problem again. Both MP4 and  Cineform files carry on regardless after it's been running for a few seconds. This is annoying when I need to correct it as it sometimes starts to wander off, and adjusting the box size can help it concentrate. This is especially the case on things that are moving towards the camera, so getting bigger and revealing more detail; or the reverse.

    OS: Windows 7
    CPU: i7 950
    MEMORY: 8GB
    GPU: NVidia Geforce GTX 580
    SSD: No, Sata 6.

    Pretty old hardware, but good  enough to be generally usable except for this.

    Here's a wrinkle. It's not consistent. Trying to make a small file to send you (the video I'm using is 3.2Gb) and sometimes it does it sometimes not, as I'm deleting other elements from the project, so I'm starting again and deleting different things.  Seems to have something to do with whether the timelines are open and showing lots of other points etc. but I'm trying to get a handle on it to send you something that a) does it every time and b) isn't huge.

  • AxelWilkinson
    AxelWilkinson Staff Administrator, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 5,247 Staff

    Thanks for your effort in trying to isolate the details that cause this behavior. Hopefully you find it, so we can look into getting this fixed for you.

    "It acts like it's decoding every frame from the beginning of the entire file, then forgets and does it again or something" - You description here is actually pretty close. And that's the side effect for using MP4 for editing. MP4 compresses loads of frames together, so that perhaps dozens of frames need to be decoded to show each individual frame. And even when playback is real-time with these codecs, they eat up loads of processor overhead which could otherwise be used to render effects, so once you start processing your footage, things will slow down more quickly than if you use an editing format.

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    Just adding to this I've had the same problem several times across radically different hardware and several different codecs including MP4, DNxHD, ProRes, MagicYUV, Cineform, Grass Valley HQX, frame serving via Avisynth and where the codec allows in both AVI and MOV containers. It seems that the longer the clip the worse the problem is but I haven't been able to pin it down consistently either.

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    I have had some success at finding 'A' data point, at least.

    As I said above: having the timeline closed down it seems to work OK, which is how it was when I opened a project that was previously causing problems and I tried to reproduce it for @Ady. So I opened it up as I usually have things and...Bingo! Lockout!

    See the two screenshots below. I've previously done two tracks which I join together by having the video parented to a 'Track Join Point' which contains an offset at the frame where one stops and the next begins to stick the two tracks together, as they were originally tracking different things. Then that point is parented to a 'Scale Point', which allows me to scale everything up and move things around to hide the edges when I Stabilise the video - twice, one for each track point - then add keyframes to smooth it all out. Simple stuff (credit to @Robin  and @rgbii and I think @Triem23 ) that would be made simpler still if we could join tracks together more easily, as @SimonKJones  said might be possible at some point here: https://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/comment/53493/#Comment_53493

    Anyway, set up as in this screenshot I can track that tree and stop it at any point with no problem.
    http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/pickaname2/StopsOK2.jpg
    With timeline items expanded it locks me out until it gets to the end and even takes several frames to realise it is off the edge; see there are a few data points outside the frame. (Easier to see in the screenshot above, on the right hand side)
    http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab106/pickaname2/NoStoppingIt2.jpg
    So, @Ady, take any video you like, as intimated by @Aladdin4d above, and try something like that. To be closer to what I did, you can put just about any MP4 file through GoPro Studio (Free) and it will produce a Cineform file for you, although MP4 also does it, as mentioned, and I think more consistently, as whatever CPU is being used up to decode frames possibly makes it even more prone to ignoring the keyboard/mouse.

    @AxelWilkinson thanks for the response/confirmation, but perhaps it could at least remember where the previous second's video markers were or something? Seriously, no other editor has this much of a problem scrubbing forwards and backwards with MP4 files, so the usual "convert to DNxHD: problem solved" doesn't entirely stand up to scrutiny.

    Oh, and general editing isn't too bad with MP4 files, just tracking slows to a complete crawl when scanning that tiny box. Does it decode the whole frame for every pixel scanned or some other coding oversight?

    Being able to output in more AVI formats - specifically Cineform, as the codecs are right there if Hitfilm looked - and .MOV on the PC so I can output DNxHD  intermediary files and import them into another editor or even back into Hitfilm for another round of grading etc. would also be useful.

    Don't spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.

  • Setiawan
    Setiawan Website User Posts: 32 Enthusiast

    I just had the same trouble when I tried first time on my AVCHD format (with PCM audio) from PXW-X70 camcorder. I need a short tracking, then after I noticed it was 'mis-tracking', I want to stop it, but unable to stop...

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    Exactly what I want to do: correct it mis-tracking and take another run at something, but can't. (Well... couldn't. Now I can)

    Could you try it again with the timeline stuff closed down and see if it makes any difference, as it did for me? I can do that over and over again and it's completely reproducible now. Opened Up=Lockout, Closed=Fine.

    If it does for you, then we have 2 data points to help the developers.

  • Ady
    Ady Staff Administrator, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,471 Staff
    edited July 2015

    Hi all,

    Thanks for the updated information, I'm taking a look at this now as a high priority, but no issue reported has ever been ignored. I looked into what _simon_ posted & was unable to reproduce the problem at all on a variety of different hardware types.

    We take all feedback seriously, but as I hope you can all appreciate it's virtually impossible to fix something that you cannot reproduce successfully in house. Once we pin down the cause, the fix can be applied.

    What you have posted is extremely helpful & hopefully now we can reproduce this problem & get it fixed for all of you that are affected.

    Please accept my apologies once again for any inconvenience caused.

    Ady 

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

     @Palacano & @Ady I'll be able to try Palacano's suggestion later tonight. I'll try tracking a presenter through a one hour talk and see how it goes.

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    @Ady OK, best of luck. Hopefully you can reproduce it, but if not I can send you a project file and could probably just swap in any video files you like as replacements for mine and track some random thing to get the same behavior I do.

    After that: just found 2 more buglets.   More details in another thread, I guess, but briefly: Unable to rename a New Point. Duplicated, created another, nothing. Deleted both, recreated. Nothing. Attempted to rename something that's already renamed. Success. Create New Point, now able to rename that too. That's with pressing F2 or selecting it from Right Click menu.  And....this is the first time this has ever happened... yep, hard to debug stuff like that.

    Other issue: 3 composite shots on Editor timeline. Middle one (2nd) shows as Black. Check Composite: is Visible in Viewer. Toggle all elements off and back on again (video and .PNG overlay and some points): Now visible on Editor Timeline. Export all 3 parts from Editor as one...3rd Composite's section is now Black in output video, even though that was always visible in Composite and Editor. Go back and export from Composite: video now Visible. Only clue is had been looking at some transitions, but removed them all before exporting.

    Had a few isolated crashes today and it tries to create a dump file to send you, but never produces anything to send. Kinda stuck there.

    @Aladdin4d  What I'm tracking is about a minute long - so not even a very large number of points, but is at 60fps - but perhaps you could try tracking his head for a few minutes to get some data points visible, then go back and do his arm on another point, then his other arm on another and see at what point it stops responding as more tracking point views are open on the timeline?

    I find that even with a lot of previous tracks visible on the timeline you can stop it within the first second or so, or single step it - which I've also resorted to before -  but once it's past that point: you're locked out.

    When you've got things minimised on the timeline, or are doing your first track, (single, a double might push it into lockout) then you can start and stop at any time.

  • Setiawan
    Setiawan Website User Posts: 32 Enthusiast

    Thanks @Ady.

    As for additional information, after having one 'bug' like described here, I tried second time, and it can be stopped. I'm not sure yet the 'behavior', but If I had a chance, I'll try simulate it.

    Got something else to do, and glad can incorporate HF3e's tracking ability on my latest project where I need to censor [something] due to little crazy accident at one wedding party :) #oops

     

    @Palacono, if possible, try record it as well if you want to simulate something. I use https://obsproject.com/ to record my screen, simple and useful enough for me when doing beta-testing other products sometimes ago.

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    @Setiawan , Thanks, I have Camtasia for screen recording if required, but I'm hoping the screenshots will be enough to help look in the right area. :)

  • Ady
    Ady Staff Administrator, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,471 Staff

    Hi everyone,

    Thank you for your updated information, I have spent the entirety of this morning & majority of this afternoon trying to replicate the issue without success. 

    So with that in mind could someone please upload the Project & of course the footage with the problem so that I can run it here on all the machines we have to see if I can get the bug to show. You can set it all up how you do to replicate it & I'll just hit the track button, therefore eliminating any errors on my part.

    I know it's a lot to ask but I simply cannot see this problem at present. I really do appreciate your time on this, I will get to the bottom of it if it kills me.

    Thanks,
    Ady

  • Palacono
    Palacono Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,448 Enthusiast
    edited July 2015

    @Ady I'll do some tests with replacement footage in the project file that always does it and that doesn't if I minimize the timeline stuff. If that works, then I can send you the project without the enormous 3.2Gb video file attached and you can drop something else into it when it complains it can't find the video. If not, I'll have to trim/resize or resample the original video to get the size down.

    Just to highlight how unpredictable it is: I just created another project and the very first tracking point - with everything on timeline minimised - was semi-unresponsive, in that it didn't stop immediately, but took about 20 seconds, which is better than it carrying on until the marker goes out of bonds. That was with a Cineform 'editing friendly' file too.

    However the 'can't rename a New Point' popped up again. 2nd time now. This time exporting the file, then going back into edit seemed to fix it. It's possible just changing screens reset something, but only after I'd actually exported did I think to try renaming again.

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    @Ady and @Palacono - I can now confirm that with everything on the timeline collapsed the controls are much more responsive from stopping instantly to taking just a few seconds which is much much better than with timeline options expanded. 

    I'm trying sort out something I can send that shows the problem for me that isn't outrageously huge so hopefully I'll have something up by tomorrow

  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast

    Can you capture screen a video of the entire problem?

  • Aladdin4d
    Aladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    @MichaelJames - Right now that's a big fat maybe. I'm morally opposed to screen recording software and I don't have any hardware with me at the moment. I plan on seeing what's available in the morning but there's a few events going on so everything might be out on jobs.

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