hf3 Extrusion and reflections

DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

Hi guys,

If I create a transparent png (in this case of lettering and a logo) I assume I can extrude it to fake 3d in hf3. 

If I then want to place that over a live action plate of a lake how would add a relection in the lake. Is there an effect for this or is it a manual thing of flipping layers, opacity, ripples etc?

Comments

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,280 Ambassador

    Yes, you can extrude the PNG to fake depth.

    Reflections.... hmmmm.... is there camera movement in the plate--is this something you're motion/mocha tracking? There are several ways to do reflections depending on the shot. However, most of them begin with "duplicate your media, flip it vertically, position it and lower the opacity."

    Hitfilm does have a Generate>Reflection effect, and it does allow you to parent the reflection center to a point, so that should save some time, but you might still have to do some masking depending on the edges of your lake.

    For ripples, a good way to start is to put a displace effect on your reflection and use your source video as the map--that way the displacement will be generated by the actual motion of the water in the lake. Yeah, no matter what, there's probably multiple layers of effects and masking going on.

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    That's what I thought. Was just living in hope lol 

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    it turns out I can't use extrusion for this. The camera pans around quite a long way, having tracked the shot in mocha (first time I got a decent track out of mocha) I added the text and parented to one of the points and it works nicely. Added extrusion and as the camera moved it looks a total mess. I have no doubt this is because it's a 2d effect that has broken down in these circumstances. Anyway the long and the short is that I need to extrude a real 3d object from the logo I will using for the final shot. Blender here I come I think.

  • StormyKnightStormyKnight Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,726 Ambassador
    edited February 2015

    Did you try creating a point and the transform from option in the extrusion effect? I've had good luck with 3D Extrusion and your description above may not be all the steps you need to take. About 1:50 into this video explains it quickly and easily. You may have to copy and paste the link into the address bar......or it's just the computer I'm on.

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast

    Yes, the problem might be that you still have your text setup as a 3D plane. switch the text itself to 2D, and the extrusion will handle all the 3D-faking.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,280 Ambassador

    Don't use a tracked point as a parent. Create a point, parent it to the tracked pount, zero it out to the same location, the unparent it. Even in a good mocha track a point can jitter

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast
    edited February 2015

    Ok thanks guys I'll give these tips a try when I get home tonight. I do have my text set up as a 3d plane as that seemed to be the only way to get it to track with the footage. Perhaps I was doing something wrong there as well then. Lets see what this evening  brings.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,280 Ambassador

    Naw, like Robin said, the 3D Extrude effect is a 3D effect that fakes 3D based on the position of an "Extrude From" Null/Point. That tripped me up the first time I used it.

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    Hi @Triem23,

    Yeah i know extrusion in hitfilm is a 2d effect. My problem was that it the text didn't stay locked down in place when I set it up as 2d. The mocha track was good at 92% but when I added the text I wanted it to stay in one place in the footage a bit like the TV show Fringe used quite often.  I parented the text to the same point I used for the 3d version but it seemed to ignore that. I have no doubt done something wrong but not sure what right now. The footage is here if this helps.

  • RobinRobin Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,671 Enthusiast

    If you want just the text to follow the camera movement, then you indeed have to make the layer 3D and parent it to the point you're using. But if you want to use the 3D extrusion, you have to go a completely different route, which is setting the Text layer to 2D and parent it to NOTHING, then set up the extrusion and in the extrusion effect, select the point in the dropdown called "Transform From" under the Position controls group, and if neccessary adjust the Position and Z Shift values to get it in the right spot. The important thing here is to realize that the actual text layer will be diminished to a mere rendering surface for the extrusion effect. The effect itself handles (read: fakes) all positioning in 3D space, so the rendering surface should be 2D and not transformed to get an optimal result.

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    ok @Robin I will give that a try. Reading your Post through a few times I finally spotted it said transform from not just transform. It's only one word different but it all makes sense now. I will try that tonight.

    Thanks to everyone for the help on this one. This is just a proof of concept test for the real shoot as I shot this with my phone. Next step, time lapse.  

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    Hi @Robin, @Triem23,

    That worked a treat for the main text, thanks for that breakdown. I have run into a problem with the reflection though. Applying the reflection effect rotates the text on the wrong axis. So I end up with the P of the reflection next to the N of the text. Same is true if I duplicate and rotate. This is because the text is now a 2D layer I expect. I cheated in that I created a copy of the text, removed the extrusion and converted to a 3D layer but that isn't a true reflection as it lacks the extrusion (ignoring the fact I made the mistake of positioning it like a shadow instead of a reflection). Any ideas how to fix this? I thought of maybe creating the whole reflection extrusion and all  in an embedded comp but even then the extrusion wont look right when it moves with the point I don't think. Can I apply extrusion to an embedded comp so I could invert the text correctly , then embed the comp in the main one then apply the extrusion to that?

    Thanks guys

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,280 Ambassador

    Yes. Copy the text layer into an embedded comp. Make it a 3D plane, rotate 180 degrees on Y and Z. Now in your main comp you can apply 3D Extrusion to the embed. Use the same transform from point as the main to reflection. Offset on Y-axis to position. For ripples in the reflection try the Heat Distortion or Displacement filters. Reflection layer probably should be maybe 80% opacity. It might also look better in a Screen, Soft Light or Overlay blend mode. 

  • DreamArchitectDreamArchitect Website User Posts: 595 Enthusiast

    Brilliant, thanks @Triem23 I think that's the last piece in the puzzle. Proof of concept should be complete. Ripples aren't needed this time round (the lake was frozen when I shot test footage) but will be when I shoot the final shot. 

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