The new particle simulator in HitFilm 3 Pro

SimonKJones
SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
edited November 2014 in Post-production techniques

HitFilm 3 Pro arrives end of November for $299.
Pre-order now to get special offers and additional upgrade discounts.

HitFilm’s particle simulator has always been one of its most powerful features, delivering fully 3D and customizable particle systems with forces, deflectors and mobile emitters, without needing to buy third party plugins. HitFilm 3 Pro takes things to a whole new level, so let’s take a closer look at what’s changed and what’s new. Read more...

This is a comment topic for a blog post.

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Comments

  • HarryTippetts
    HarryTippetts Posts: 65
    edited November 2014

     Wow. Many, many things to like here:

    1) That UI looks beautiful. Really nice.

    2) The real time playback was impressive.

    3) The improvements to the particle simulator makes it worth the upgrade cost alone. Unified 3D space is going to make things so much more convenient, user defined particle source shapes is something I've been thinking about for a while now and the 3D particle textures interacting with lights and other particle systems in real time is unbelievable (if videocopilot hadn't beaten you to it I'd swear you were gods).

    4) Please excuse me while I stare at the UI again…

     Muchas Kudos everyone. 

     

  • Is it possible to grade the 3D models used in the particle simulator so that the grade continues to apply to them in a unified 3D space? That's a strategy I currently use in HitFilm 2 with 2D particles. I grade the embedded composite shot that I use as the particle image, which then grades all of the particles while allowing them to still interact with 3D planes. It only works with some grade effects, as others, (such as grain), don't scale properly. Would it be possible to use that strategy with 3D models in HitFilm 3's particle simulator?

  • As a man always does in the audience of an Apple event.... Wooo Yeah!

    I can't wait.

  • chibi
    chibi Posts: 257 Just Starting Out

    The interface looks good. Its sleek and looks more compact.

  • Thomas
    Thomas Posts: 2
    edited November 2014

    Okay, so here's a question that was somewhat answered, but it was asked when I didn't have a thought fully in mind. The new version also has the Atomic Particles feature, that no longer needs to apply ONLY to a 2D image, it can now be applied to an imported 3D model/Object of any sort? So this Object, let's say it's a car, high resolution from say, Daz3d.com or Renderosity.com, and I import it into the program and apply the Atomic Particle engine to it...can I make it look like it's a time lapse video of a car disintegrating into a pile of dust, based on random particle sizing? Can I make it explode, and if so, can I control the size of said particles, or does it rip it apart according to Polygons? If I had it set up as an Atomic Particle and send a "Force" through it, like gravity and turbulence, will it act accordingly and be destroyed as expected? How about someone does a video of what it can actually do? I can see that option being used for many purposes...think the recent movie "Echo" where the truck disassembles, and reassembles beyond the kids, or how some of the new Transformers can disassemble and reassemble at a different place, from full robot to particles, and back to full robot again...or someone using a force push from Star Wars and destroying anything you like in the world of 3D objects available to composite into your films? We need information, People of Hitfilm, and we need it NOW! Simon Jones...this one's for you. :)

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,218 Ambassador

     I've already posted these in the "Announcing Hitfilm 3," thread as well as my own. However, since Simon just wrote a nice blog about the new Particle system, this is a good place to talk about them again.

    This first video was built in Hitfilm Ultimate 2--there was a long, involved process of matching the main camera to cameras in embedded composite shots to generate animated particle textures for the ring, and an 3D plane in the center for the planet... It worked pretty well for giving the illusion of 3D objects, but it was a cheat and workaround and a pain in the butt if at some point I changed the camera move. Not that the planetary rings are not casting a shadow on the planet... This version of the shot took about eight hours to set up.

    This second video started out as revisiting the first video--Using the new particle simulator the asteroids in the rings, are now particle replicated 3D models--this allows for a greater variety of movement in the individual rocks and helps hide the fact that there are only three models. The particle-simulated ring now wraps properly around the planet, which is a 3D model on a seperate layer. (note that the rings are now casting a shadow on the planet) Just for fun, I added in a fleet of Klingons, again, using the particle simulator. This shot took about 90 minutes to set up.

    Everything in this shot in in the same Composite Shot--there is no embedding, masking or other trick/workaround to make this happen--it's just one 3D space.

    This third shot was set up in about a half hour--the Photon Torpedoes being fired are a copy of the Klingon particle simulator with it's emitter position and settings adjusted--this shows that by synching up particle simulators, not only can you procedurally create a fleet of space ships, you can procedurally have them fire weapons. The photon torpedoes themselves are procedurally generated in an embedded composite shot using the lightning generator and a fractal noise plane with sphere effect to create a 2D animated particle. Looking in the lower-left corner of this shot you can see some of the rocks spinning in the dust, and you can see that the front half of a rock is emerging from the dust while the back half is in the dust... This shows that the particle simulator is caluculating the 3D models as true 3D objects and not "flattening" them into 2D before render.

    Between Simon Jones's city and spark text tests, Null Unit's 3D fighter with Dragon's Breath particle jets and the tests I've posted here, I think you should all get a good idea of the new possibilities opened up by the new particle sim!

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,218 Ambassador

    @Thomas Atomic Particles is based off of fractal displacement, and doesn't have forces. That said, some of what you describe could probably be done in the regular particle sim. I can't be more specific on your questions and I haven't really played with the new Atomic features yet. @NullUnit might know--he's the Atomic master.

    @Tooshka, If the only new thing in HFP3 was the way the new 3D space works, I'd still upgrade. Obviously the videos I've posted are reworks of an HF2 project, but it was very nice to set those up in under an hour, and not in 8-10 hours. :-)

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast
    edited November 2014

    @TooshkaWinConway: What sort of thing would you consider big reveals? All software does is make difficult laborious things easier. Thats it's purpose in general terms. It's unlikely they are going to release a full version for free or add scripting (in itself just something that makes laborious jobs much easier) so what sort of things are you referring to? That way if they are things we would all find useful we could lend some weight to getting them included for the future.

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast

    @Thomas - forces are in the particle simulator effect, not in atomic particles. They work quite differently.

    That said, you can disperse and displace atomic acccording to an animated gradient, so you can have a model gradually atomize itself from front to back (for example).

    For what you're describing I'd probably use a combination of atomic and the particle sim to create a disintegration effect.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,218 Ambassador

    I'll admit--PI's graphing system makes certain things easier to set up, but I think HF's system is more powerful--then again, my copy of PI is the 2006 one. Still works great!

    Atomics is an odd duck. It does something fairly unique (the only other similar thing I can think of is 3D Particle array in Boris), and the think the most interesting uses of Atomic I've seen are Majahr's starfield and Null's galaxy. I've used it mostly for text and titles, myself, although, if you need it, it's nice to have. I have a buddy thinking about HF3 soley to add Atomic to his AE.

    I haven't played with the denosier yet (which is dumb, because I'm tracking a clip in mocha now that I ran through Neat Video in Vegas before importing to Hitfilm... oops), but I think that's in the plug-ins.

    For the record, in the current Beta Build of HFP3, my NewBlue effects and transitions load, but not my Boris or Neat Video. This is an adjustment that neets to me made at Boris and Neat's end, not FxHome.

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    @TooshkaWinConway: For me some of those thing you aren't interested in are veryinteresting for me so for me they have been quite big reveals already. Not the atomic particles thing, I don't really use them either though I might in the future but some of the other stuff. Perhaps it depends to what level a person uses the software. Also you have to consider they are trying to satisfy everyone, not just Tooshka or Dream Architect and sometimes in that situation they are gonna miss the target for some people. If there is more big stuff to come though bring it on !!

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    Perhaps that's because without unified 3d space it was much more difficult to set up a 3d scene?

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    And thats wrong why?

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    Well that's what the language in the second part of your comment suggested. You have after all been quite a negative commentor since the HF3 announcement. Of course thats your right and you opinion and you are entitled to that but it will induce people to see some of your posts in a negative light when perhaps they were not intended that way. Especially when you start them with no disrespect meant.

    Anyway I'm sure you will continue to demand more of FXHOME as will I. Probably in different ways and in different areas of the software but either way hopefully it will take HF forward for the future.

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast

    Oh yeah, definitely keep being demanding, guys. It keeps us honest. :)

    This is something we'll be expanding upon at a later date, but from HF3's release onwards we're intending to be more responsive and iterative in general. So keep that feedback coming, as it helps to shape our direction.

    As for the discussion on the new features in HF3, we pick new features based on all sorts of criteria, not just what's been posted on the forum and its surroundings. As with any product, each person will find them more or less interesting and relevant. That's fine - that's just how this stuff works. If somebody isn't interested this time round, then maybe there'll be something down the line which grabs 'em. It's very evident that there's a lot of people who do like the look of HF3's features, though, I'm happy to report. :)

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    @SimonKJones: Me included, I'm pleased with what I've seen so far and I think the under bonnet change to a plugin architecture will allow you guys to move forward much faster but these things are not done overnight. After all how long has AE been around? So well done so far guys but yes, we will all no doubt continue to demand more 

  • chibi
    chibi Posts: 257 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2014

    Since we're in the demanding phase :), more presets like Magic bullet looks would be great

    More improvement to NLE tools.

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    Well your comments may not be intended to be negative. That is however how they have come across quite often. So I stand by my comment. I should also point out I'm far from a fan boi as you put it. I do however beleive in supporting smaller companies like fxhome. So I would rather praise what they do achieve instead of slating them for what they haven't yet had time to do. Of course hitflim is still missing a lot of stuff that other more mature software has. There seems little point in drawing focus to that though. It's not going to be fusion or AE overnight after all. I have no doubt the guys at fxhome are well aware of some of hitflim shortcomings. 

    In the end it's not how you perceive your comments or the language you use but how others perceive them that matters. Take calling people silly or a brigade or indeed a fan boi just because they have a different opinion to you. I've seen you do that on several occasions recently. I guess if you would be that disrespectful to other forum members then you would be quite happy to be spoken to that way yourself? Its a shame really as you seem reasonably knowledgeable and have some good tips from time to time. You just seem at times to have a rather negative or disrespectful way of handling those that don't agree with what is in the end, just your opinion.

    Incidentally do you find this forum slows to a crawl when you type a long post?

  • DreamArchitect
    DreamArchitect Posts: 597 Enthusiast

    Well that's fine and not a problem. Your post also made me smile and really proves my point rather well. I will however still comment on your posts positive or negative as I choose.  I don't feel a difference or opinion or approach necessitates ignoring someone. It's both counterproductive and rather childish. You call someone silly because you think they are silly and they are supposed to just accept it, someone says you come across as negative and you taken your ball home? Really? That doesn't seem like you but OK. As you wish. 

  • Stargazer54
    Stargazer54 Posts: 3,548 Ambassador

    Anyway . . .    I for one am looking forward to the addition of more 3D capabilities in HF.   Being able to composite 3D models into real footage was a gapping hole in my toolbox.    I find HF a great compliment to Lightwave (which admitedly can do the aforementioned compositing, as well, but is rather cumbersome).   

    I would actually be thrilled if I get nothing more from HF3 than faster response and faster rendering.   @Triem23 - thanks for the info on how much faster you are able to set up your shots in the new version.  

    Really looking forward to ramping up the work flow speed now that I'm starting to get the hang of things.   If I'm a fan boi, then I'm a fan of getting things done quicker and better within my budget and within the time I have to learn a new tool.

  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast

    Can i put a particle simulator into an atomic particle layer?  There by giving atomic particles gravity controls?

  • @MichaelJames

    Wouldn't the particle sim just assign itself a new layer like always?

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,218 Ambassador

    @MichaelJames, The particle sim is physics based. Atomic Particles is basrd off fractal displacement. No forces in Atomic. 

  • davide445
    davide445 Posts: 306 Just Starting Out

    @Triem23

    Particle sim physics is working in CPU or GPU?

    Any GPU hw accelleration?

  • Grisby
    Grisby Posts: 299 Just Starting Out*

    BTW: Thanx for NOT being a beta Tester again... I use and recommend FXHome since VisionLab... *argh*

  • AxelWilkinson
    AxelWilkinson Posts: 5,252 Staff

    @davide445 - physics simulations for particles are done on the CPU, but all particle rendering is done on the GPU, to take advantage of your dedicated hardware.

  • PhilWesson
    PhilWesson Posts: 241 Enthusiast

    I gave in, take my money.

     

  • looks too cool... just upgraded...

  • JonathanDanylko
    JonathanDanylko Posts: 1
    edited November 2014

    Quick Question...

    I have HitFilm 2 Ultimate. Is HitFilm 3 Pro the "ultimate" version for the 3.0 version or will there be another version better than HitFilm 3 Pro?

    I don't want to upgrade to Pro and then a HitFilm 3 "Ultimate" version comes out later and I need to upgrade again. ;-)

    Thanks!

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast

    HitFilm 3 Pro is the direct successor to HitFilm 2 Ultimate, it's just had a name change. We talk about it briefly here: http://hitfilm.com/blog/announcing-hitfilm-3-pro/