Vegas pro, different color space?

markluck
markluck Website User Posts: 24 Just Starting Out*

Hopefully someone can help me with this mysterious problem. I am using hitfilm pro 16 as I'm working on a project in Vegas pro 17, I used the "edit in hitfilm" menu item and edit a piece of footage in hitfilm, once I save the file in hitfilm and come back to Vegas pro, it looks as if I have adjusted the color curve of that footage in hitfilm, although I haven't. If you look at this short video and notice the title above the ladies head, you will see the contrast shift when It gets to the hitfilm clip. Is this due to a difference in color space between the 2 programs? Is it that hitfilm is using a different color depth then Vegas pro. Please let me know what you think.



https://youtu.be/B7aLWP24hW8

Comments

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,581 Ambassador
    edited May 14

    Yeah, Vegas defaults to a "broadcast" color space where 16, 16, 16 is black and 235, 235, 235 is white (timing signals take the sub-16 bandwidth and audio the over-235).

    Hitfilm always uses a full 0-255 range.

    Set your Vegas Project color settings to 32-bit full range. That should fix the mismatch.

    The error here is Vegas sends a 16-235 image to Hitfilm. Hitfilm processes in 0-255, but Hitfilm has correctly taken the 16-235 data. When the media is replaced with the Hitfilm project Vegas is squashing the 0-255 back to 16-235 which basically "double flattens" the color. The error is on the Vegas end of the pipe.

    More information on Vegas project settings here. Look at the "Pixel Format" section (it's what I discussed here about 16-235 vs 0-255) and the "Composting Gamma" sections. If you shift to 32-bit Full Level in Vegas you might need to change Gamma from 1.0 to 2.2

    Another option is to bung a Levels effect on anything bounced through Hitfilm back in Vegas to nudge it back into proper color space. Setting a Levels (Black) Input of 16/Output 0 and (White) Input of 235/Output 255 re-expands the range. There's a Vegas preset for this built in already. It's one of the Studio to Full range presets. Sorry, on my phone now so I'm typing from memory.

    I've used Vegas since 1999. Obviously I love it, but it's time for the Vegas team to update the color handling a bit. To be blunt the majority of Vegas users are not creating video for broadcast standards (I used to, but haven't done broadcast work since 2016), but for internet, and internet color handling needs improvement.

  • markluck
    markluck Website User Posts: 24 Just Starting Out*

    Thanks Triem23,


    Is 32bit floating point a workable option? When I use 32 bit full with 2.222 gamma it make my video look so contrasty and over saturated, I don't know how I could expose for that in camera.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,581 Ambassador

    I usually adjust with Levels after the round trip.

  • markluck
    markluck Website User Posts: 24 Just Starting Out*

    Triem23, I tried it and it's very workable. Thank you, Sir you're awesome😉!

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,581 Ambassador

    Glad to help! Fortunately Vegas has a preset in Levels, so, once you know what's going on, it's a quick fix, but it will be nice if/when Vegas improves color handling for non-broadcast work.

    Wait, I'm a Beta Tester! Why am I not requesting this and getting other testers to agree with me?

  • Dimipapa
    Dimipapa Website User Posts: 360 Enthusiast

    Another reason I never use the edit in hitfilm option.

  • Manhit
    Manhit Website User Posts: 40 Enthusiast
    edited May 15

    Hi All,

    I am not sure if this addresses the issue correctly but Vegas Pro 18 by default now uses an "8 bit (full level)" mode.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,581 Ambassador

    @Manhit yup it does. And how did I miss that?

  • Hictor
    Hictor Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 370 Enthusiast

    @Triem23 I'm beginning to wonder if VEGAS should actually switch its default to 0-255 personally.


    It makes sense, considering that majority use is towards for Social Media. Also - with today's new TVs?

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