Sharper Text?

HitFilmer96073
HitFilmer96073 Posts: 13 Just Starting Out*

I'm using the Clean Box Line template and it doesn't look very nice. Here's what the template composite looks like on it's own and what that composite looks like as part of the intro composite i'm working in. What can I do to get it looking better?



Comments

  • spyresca
    spyresca Posts: 281 Enthusiast

    Did you actually export it and see what it looks like as final output?

  • DataDesign
    DataDesign Posts: 673 Enthusiast

    @HitFilmer96073

    A similar question was posted a week or two ago. One answer was to choose a font size at least double what your final size will be, then resize it down in your video.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,288 Power User

    Yeah, that font is jagged!

    As @DataDesign hints, text in Hitfilm is rasterized at time of creation. basically, Avoid scaling text up if possible. Try making your text Double Size and Scale down for extra Sharpness.

    As @spyresca hints at, the Viewer in Hitfilm, by default, does not anti-alias. Renders ALWAYS anti-alias. A render should look smoother.

    Another thing you look at is your Viewer Quality Settings. Make sure you're not set for 1/2 or 1/4 Resolution.

  • HitFilmer96073
    HitFilmer96073 Posts: 13 Just Starting Out*

    @Triem23 I didn't understand what you meant about Scale before, but I got it now. I tried increasing to the largest possible size and then scaling down and this is what I got:


  • HitFilmer96073
    HitFilmer96073 Posts: 13 Just Starting Out*

    @Triem23 I just added regular text and it looks much better, so the jaggedness must be related to the template. Still not sure if it can be fixed or I need to ditch the template though.



  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,288 Power User

    One thought - is the Template using a text EFFECT or a Text LAYER?

    Those are actually different rendering engines and I think text LAYERS are cleaner.

  • HitFilmer96073
    HitFilmer96073 Posts: 13 Just Starting Out*

    @Triem23 Under Media, I click Install Template and then select a template. I tried Import, but then I couldn't edit it at all, even to change the words, so now I choose Edit and it creates a new Composite - the one I refer to as Template Composite above. Then I add that Composite to my Intro Composite.

    I thought if I changed the Template Composite to 4k, it would help it look nicer, but that just made it look smaller in the frame. Since I couldn't find a way to make the template bigger without messing up the animation, I went in the opposite direction and cut it down. That way I got the text to fill the frame and it doesn't look like that affected the quality at all. Looking at the 2 side by side, I don't see any difference.

    But I wonder if the problem is that the Intro Composite is in 4k and the Template Composite isn't? I still have to enlarge the Template Composite once I add it to the Intro Composite, which makes the roughness of it much more visible. For comparison, here's the size when I first add it versus the size I stretch it to. I didn't think the Scale trick would work here, since there's no editable Text Layer.



  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    @Triem23 Something with a HitFilm update last year introduced a bug where text layers aren't antialiasing any more. I reported it to support, but haven't heard about a fix yet. I've been doing the double-it-and-scale-down technique ever since then, but it's a bit of a pain.

  • Palacono
    Palacono Posts: 3,414 Enthusiast

    @CleverTagline I was slightly confused that you say you got this to work, because it never worked before (it's done this forever) and it still doesn't - on the PC.

    Text is "Special" (on the PC anyway) in that it's always redrawn at whatever size or scale it needs to be displayed at. So scaling up the layer is the same as increasing the font size, is the same as attaching the layer to a point and scaling that. Its outline is always recalcuated.

    Anti-Aliasing currently ""works"", BTW, so that glitch must have been fixed. Never saw it not working, but then I do the method outlined below anyway. Try it with a really tiny font size, then scale it up 1000%. Then on another layer make a huge font with no scaling and they'll end up looking identical.

    Especially visible if you turn off AA, zoom in and slide the text around, where the edges will crawl, even if you move really slowly, as the position will be changing by sub-pixel coordinates when you're dragging. Change the actual Transform position with the mouse via Controls or the layer itself and it tends to move in (multiples of) whole pixels, so the shape doesn't change and slides around in one 'frozen' rendered shape.

    Very visible if you've got some Mo-Graph text attached to a slowly moving object: distracting jiggly edges are distracting.

    Solution is two fold and what you did plus more: Create a completely separate composite shot at about double the size of your current one (e.g. 4k on a 1080p timeline) and make your text as large as you can in that composite shot. Or if the text is small, just making it massive in a same-sized extra comp shot will do. Just being somewhat bigger and in another comp helps.

    Add that composite shot into your original comp and scale it down. You get 'AA' for free there (times 1) and it'll not only look better when stationary, but it will also *not* be redrawn if you move it around slowly. It's now just treated like an image and on export gets even softer because *everything* has AA applied again (times 2).

  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    @Palacono Sorry, I was abbreviating my thought and not being as clear as I should be about what I was doing. I'm doing exactly what you say at the end of your post: building a separate comp that's twice as big as the main comp, creating the text in that enlarged comp, then dropping it into the main comp and scaling it down to 50% of its original size. That's what I meant by the "double-it-and-scale-down" technique.

  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    @Palacono

    Anti-Aliasing currently ""works"", BTW, so that glitch must have been fixed.

    Not on this end. I confirmed that it's still broken just a few days ago.

  • Palacono
    Palacono Posts: 3,414 Enthusiast

    @CleverTagline Ah, OK. DataDesign didn't mention a separate comp as the solution for the OP and Mike's follow up didn't clarify that either. Text does not get more jagged when you scale it up: it's just redrawn larger. NOT the same as zooming in with the Viewer window though, where it's both scaled up and has some of the ubiquitous AA applied, even in 'Full'.

    Hopefully the OP can see that that scale up/scale down doesn't work as a solution. At least in Comps. If they read this far.

    Adding text directly in the NLE seems to works differently yet again and I was surprised to find it's not possible to convert text already placed into a Composite shot with the text as a layer in it. So...scrap it and start again?

    As for AA: Are you on a Mac? Toggling Paused Resolution between Full and AntiAliased on a text layer in a composite "works" on PC. Still no option for AA on playback though. After 4 years, I think it's safe to assume it isn't coming back.

  • HitFilmer96073
    HitFilmer96073 Posts: 13 Just Starting Out*

    @Palacono As I mentioned on the 4th, text was MUCH smoother when I created it myself. And as I mentioned on the 6th, doubling the size or resolution only served to mess the template up. (see images above showing both scenarios) So in the end, I just ditched the template and it looks much better now!

  • spyresca
    spyresca Posts: 281 Enthusiast

    Text layers for me are showing up with proper anti aliasing for me. Just checked it:


  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    For me it's behaving (or rather misbehaving) exactly as it did last fall. Somewhere during the v16 beta phase something went wonky, and to my surprise (and frustration) it hasn't yet been fixed. I've uninstalled each old version and reinstalled each new one, but the problem has persisted. Here's the video that I recorded last fall demonstrating the problem:

    https://www.loom.com/share/a4e50da3f643414b90e90eca31c38b26

    My more recent tests to check it have showed that it doesn't take a change in the paused quality to flip it back to non-smooth. Simply rolling the mouse wheel to zoom in/out will do it.

    When exporting, it's even more odd. On the very first frame, text is antialiased. On every frame after that, though, it's not. With planes, it's chunky all the way through.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Posts: 281 Enthusiast
    edited April 2021

    It works 100% for me. On export, animated text keeps anti-aliasing on every frame. Also when in viewer/editor, zooming in/out maintains the AA view. That's how I took my previous screen shot. I zoomed from cleanly AA test to a zoomed version and snapped a screenshot.

    A test export.


    With Motion blur, it's even cleaner (watch at full size). Stays sharp throughout, just like the "pulp sci-fi" crawl test I did earlier in this thread.

    If you're using windows, have you tried a complete uninstall? And by that I mean NOT depending on Windows to do a good job. Use something like the free Revo uninstaller, which cleans up all the bits the windows uninstaller misses. https://www.revouninstaller.com/revo-uninstaller-free-download/

  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    @spyresca I'm on a Mac, which is why I think it might be a platform-specific thing. I might try a more detailed uninstall process than the default, but I re-sent that video to support yesterday; waiting to hear back before I dive deeper.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Posts: 281 Enthusiast
    edited April 2021

    Yeah, I can see it being a mac thing. It "just works" for windows currently. I've seen none of the issues you've been having on Mac at all. (HF 16 Pro)

  • TheBenNorris
    TheBenNorris Posts: 2,042 Staff

    @CleverTagline this is quite a long thread with a lot going on: could you tell me in detail what the bugs are or what you think is wrong? (Same for anyone else here too) I'd like to look into this and make sure it's all stuff we have logged and are aware of, and see if there is anything we can do.

  • CleverTagline
    CleverTagline Posts: 3,342 Ambassador

    @TheBenNorris I submitted a support ticket yesterday (ticket VQU-636755). In short, text and planes stopped antialiasing as of a certain beta version of HitFilm 16 last fall, and the problem still exists.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,288 Power User

    @TheBenNorris @CleverTagline to note, neither @spyresca or I are experiencing this issue. It could be Mac-only or relate to specific GPU hardware?

  • TheBenNorris
    TheBenNorris Posts: 2,042 Staff

    @CleverTagline awesome stuff, thanks for that. I was worried you'd submitted the ticket a while ago and we'd missed it.