Audio Bitrate too low

zarephlae
zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out
edited January 31 in HitFilm

So I was checking YouTube's website to see what their requirements are for uploads. I was creating my own preset to use to fit their standards. They ask for 384kbps to fit the stereo type audio. However hitfilm won't go that high but YouTube's website says it has to be that high. How to I fix this?

Also, my video has multiple audio tracks and I'm unsure how to make hitfilm recognize it? DaVinci usually automatically separates them upon importing the file.

Answers

  • Stargazer54
    Stargazer54 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 3,149 Ambassador

    @zarephlae You should have no problem using the included preset "YouTube 1080p HD". I have used this often for files to upload to YouTube with no issues.

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out
    edited January 31

    @Stargazer54 The presets don't match YouTube's standards. I need them to be at 60fps and they only go up to 30.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast

    Create your own preset. You can set a wide range of audio bitrates.


  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @spyresca I don't have that option. Mine maxes out at 192.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast
    edited January 31

    HItfilm Express? Pro? What version? 16?

    The 1080 youtube preset defaults to 384 audio bit rate on mine.

    Have you actually tried to encode using the 1080 youtube preset to see if it works? Or are you assuming it won't?

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @spyresca Hitfilm Express, the newest version. I'm guessing that's 16? The preset only goes up to 30fps which is below YouTube standards.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast

    Did you actually try using the preset and uploading a clip to youtube?

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @spyresca The preset! Uses! 30! F! P! S! It is NOT the recommended frame rate so please stop asking. I told you once I do not want to tell you again.

    Hitfilm is literally not showing 384kbps and that's the only issue I have.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast
    edited January 31

    FPS values (frames per second) and audio bit rates can both be set separately.

    if you uncheck the box by "frame rate" you should be able to set it as you want. Yes, per the comment, it defaults to 30 FPS, but you can adjust it.



    Are you just assuming an export won't work or have you actually tried it with a test clip, exported to youtube?

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    The issue is not the frame rate, the issue is I cannot choose any audio nitrate above 192kbps.

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast

    You said:

    The preset! Uses! 30! F! P! S!

    I mentioned that the "Pre-set! F!P!S!" can be changed.

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @spyresca You're starting to piss me off. THE ISSUE IS NOT THE GOD **** FPS, THE ISSUE IS NOT THE PRESET! I JUST WANT MY AUDIO TO GO ABOVE 192KBPS!!!

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast
    edited January 31

    Yeah, I'm just going to peacefully mute you now.

    My apologies for spending my valuable time trying to help you with your issue.

  • engforce
    engforce Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @zarephlae

    HitFilm Express 16 will not exceed 192kbps audio if you create a new preset to mp4.


    Pro versions of HitFilm offer higher bit rates.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Website User Posts: 4,062 Enthusiast

    Express uses the Windows OS AAC encoder. The bitrate cap may be a limit of that particular encoder.

    192Kbps is more than fine for Youtube. They typically drop their encodes down to 128Kbps.

  • engforce
    engforce Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @NormanPCN

    YouTube recommends 384 kbps for Stereo.

    512 kbps for 5.1 channel. I'm sure they specify specific values for a reason.


  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast

    "Recommends" isn't the same as "Won't Work", but the OP is too stubborn to even try.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Website User Posts: 4,062 Enthusiast

    @engforce

    YouTube recommends 384 kbps for Stereo.

    Do what you think you need/want to do.

    If you think you can hear a difference between 192 and whatever higher then more power to you.

    You can't just take bitrate and apply it everywhere. The codec matters. You cannot compare bitrate across AVC or HEVC or VP9. The quality of the encoder also matters. AAC is not same from every AAC encoder. I can't say what the quality level of the Windows OS AAC encoder (used by Express) or the Mainconcept AAC encoder (used by Hitfilm Pro) are relative to others. Historically the libavcodec (aka ffmpeg) AAC encoder was not all that good. But that is at lower bitrates. It got some love and is pretty descent these days. 192K is, or should be considered, as high bitrate for stereo with the AAC codec. Acoustically transparent is the term commonly thrown around. Youtube cannot know what encoder you are using or what the content of your source material is and they throw out an extremely conservative bitrate for AAC since it will not affect the file upload size much since audio bitrates are so much smaller than video.

    Speaking of video, IMO, the 8Mbps listed for 1080 <= 30p is maybe a bit tight for a lot of source material. I would prefer a little more wiggle room. Tight as in too close the the Youtube final result quality. Since a transcode always has some loss in quality I prefer the upload be some amount better than the YT final result. This based on my own tests of Youtube results of extreme quality 1.2Gbps Cineform RGB uploads and Youtube recommended AVC/H.264 encode bitrate uploads and comparing bot results. Tight when using the Mainconcept AVC/H.264 encoder than Hitfilm and other commercial editors so often use. If using the x264 encoder for upload then no worries. That's the encoder YT uses for AVC results. Again, VP9 is a different animal. Apples to oranges. Of course the exact content of your video matter immensely to the perceived visual quality at any given bitrate. Some material just needs more bitrate.

  • engforce
    engforce Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out
    edited January 31

    @NormanPCN


    Unless you know exactly how YouTube processes their videos. How can you possibly know whats best for their platform?The audio codec they recommend is AAC-LC. Which is what HItFilm Express 16 uses.

    Vimeo recommends 320kbps audio uploads.

    Odds are, these large video sharing companies. Have rock solid reasons for there recommendations.

    You are entitled to your opinion. Aside from your opinion. What are your credentials, why makes your opinion more credible than YouTubes recommendations?

  • spyresca
    spyresca Website User Posts: 183 Enthusiast
    edited January 31

    I took a short clip (60 fps, 384 audio bit rate, 2 channels).

    Exported it out from HF to .mp4 (60 FPS, audio bit rate reduced to 192, 2 channels)


    Uploaded it to YouTube.

    It worked fine.


    If OP thinks the recommend bitrate of 384 is somehow required, then perhaps OP should reconsider that.

  • zarephlae
    zarephlae Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out
    edited February 1

    @engforce I'm*****, aren't I?

  • engforce
    engforce Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out
    edited February 1

    @zarephlae , if you're not an Audiophile, its not the end of the world.

    Uploads of 192kbps. The sound of a person speaking shouldn't be adversely effected in most cases.

    Dynamic rich sound, like an orchestra playing. Is where you can detect audio quality drop offs. Higher bit rates/Information gives YouTube more information to work with and discard through compression/re-encoding.

    YouTube Re-Renders/Re-encodes every video you send them to make it easier to stream to their viewers. Anytime you re-encode a video quality is lost. So you want to upload higher quality video/audio that meets the sites recommended requirements when possible. You have to judge/weigh the significance of the audio hit for yourself. The playback speakers/equipment and how good you hear all comes into play. Some people have Tin Ears and don't know the difference between good audio and bad.

  • TheBenNorris
    TheBenNorris Staff Administrator, Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,863 Staff

    I answered this on the subreddit where it was crossposted, and seems Norman above has provided the explanation too - Express uses the native OS encoder which is why there are different values available in the dropdown.

    As you were warned on your comment above, please try to keep a level head and refrain from indecent language. The users on the forum are solely trying to help.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,561 Ambassador
    edited February 1

    Let me TL/DR this. Recommendations are recommendations, not "rules." Youtube will cheerfully accept file that aren't the exact "recommended" format. In fact, Youtube's own recommendations page has the following about bitrate, "No bitrate limit required, though we offer recommended bit rates below for reference." While this phrase is specifically found in the discussion of video bitrate, it applies to audio as well. 192KHz is the best you'll get from Hitfilm Express, and it will be more than good enough.

    @zarephlae

    1) Language, please. You profanity has been removed.

    2) In your second post of this thread, you wrote, "The presets don't match YouTube's standards. I need them to be at 60fps and they only go up to 30." Then yelled at @spyresca when he answered that part of your question. You asked, he answered. In this case you're in the wrong.

    2a) 60 fps is not "the recommended" frame rate for YouTube, it is an option. YouTube will accept video at 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 48, 50, 59.94 and 60fps. Just saying.

    2c) You were told how to change the frame rate of an export preset. as you asked. Yup I'm listing that twice.

    3) As @NormanPCN has correctly noted, Hitfilm Express uses the built-in OS encoders. Yes, there are limited bitrates available. 192KHz will be your maximum bitrate in Hitfilm Express. mp4 audio at 160Khz is considered "CD Quality" audio. AAC is considered to retain more information than mp3 at the same bitrate. 192KHz is fine.

    3a) The recommended 320kbps is a bit silly, actually. 320kbps would be the AAC settings to compress 96Khz/24-bit uncompressed audio. To be blunt, the chances of your source audio being 96Khz/24-bit are fairly low. Unless you're recording to a dedicated audio recorder, you aren't getting more than 48Khz/16-bit (uncompressed)audio. Again, 160kbps AAC would be the normal standard for 44.1Khz/16-bit audio, with 192kbps being more than enough for 48Khz/16-bit audio.

    4) @engforce the "PCN" in Norman's handle is "Professional Computer Nerd," and Norman is likely the most technically proficient member of this forum. I can't think of anyone else here who regularly does varied test renders, uploads, downloads and file spec comparisons. Ironically, after calling out Norman on "unless he knows exactly," you then made some assumptions and observations in your next post. To recap, Norman wrote, "Speaking of video, IMO, the 8Mbps listed for 1080 <= 30p is maybe a bit tight for a lot of source material. I would prefer a little more wiggle room...Since a transcode always has some loss in quality I prefer the upload be some amount better than the YT final result." he then continues with, "This based on my own tests of Youtube results of extreme quality 1.2Gbps Cineform RGB uploads and Youtube recommended AVC/H.264 encode bitrate uploads and comparing bot results. Tight when using the Mainconcept AVC/H.264 encoder than Hitfilm and other commercial editors so often use. If using the x264 encoder for upload then no worries. That's the encoder YT uses for AVC results. Again, VP9 is a different animal.." (Incidentally, that's a list involving testing and methodology.) You wrote, "Odds are, these large video sharing companies. Have rock solid reasons for there recommendations." then followed up with, "So you want to upload higher quality video/audio that meets the sites recommended requirements when possible." Which is it? Did Youtube make it's recommendations for "rock solid reasons," or should you upload "higher quality" than those "rock solid" recommendations? You've just agreed with someone you attacked then made the exact same point he did?

    5) Here's the bottom line. Youtube's (and any streaming service's) recommendations are just that - recommendations. Not laws. Youtube's H.264 recommendations include the following:

    • 2 consecutive B frames
    • Closed GOP. GOP of half the frame rate.
    • CABAC
    • Variable bitrate. No bitrate limit required, though we offer recommended bit rates below for reference.
    • Chroma subsampling: 4:2:0

    CABAC, B-frames and GOP length are not accessible in the HF exporter. Nor in the Vegas Pro exporter, nor most NLEs, and certainly not in the settings for any camera or phone. The majority of video uploaded to Youtube DOES NOT MATCH the "recommended" settings, yet work fine. Here's where I note that h.265 (HEVC) isn't even listed on Youtube's recommendation page as a video format, yet all the iPhone users shooting h.265 video can upload to Youtube just fine. 192Khz audio is fine.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,561 Ambassador

    @zarephlae Hitfilm only resolves a single stereo pair when given a multitrack audio file. You can right-click a file in the media bin, select "Properties," then select which audio track you wish to read. Accessing multiple channels requires the annoying workaround of duplicating the media clip and setting each instance to use a different audio track, then synching things up. Or, other software could be used to extract the audio tracks. This is an area where Hitfilm has recently improved (a few versions ago, Hitfilm couldn't read the alternate audio tracks at all), but could still use further improvement.

  • engforce
    engforce Website User Posts: 9 Just Starting Out

    @Triem23 , I'm the engaging force of common sense. Why? Because I just said so.

    Just like PNC must be a Professional Computer Nerd because he says so.

    Yet, YouTube recommends uploading mp4's with the AAC-LC audio codec. Why, upload time would have to be a huge factor. IMO But hey, Google's been at this for how many years and processing 300,000 videos a day? I'm thinking the experts at Google have learned some things along the way.

    If PNC knows more than them. He should probably apply for a job. Heck, he might be running the place by summer with a 6 or 7 figure salary if hes as good as you think he is.

    PNC's tests of Youtube results of extreme quality 1.2Gbps Cineform RGB :which is .MOV: may result in better audio but at what cost????

    LONG LONG upload times and huge files for short duration videos. Just because it can be done, doesn't make it a Good or Reasonable Alternative in most cases. Not from my perspective.

    @zarephlae was looking for a standard H264 video output with a audio bit rate of 384 kbps in HitFilm Express 16. It doesn't exist. The Pro versions do, without all the overhead.

    What he got was anything but a simple response or answer to his question.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,561 Ambassador

    @engforce

    "I'm the engaging force of common sense. Why? Because I just said so"

    No, you're exacerbating a situation.

    "PNC's tests of Youtube results of extreme quality 1.2Gbps Cineform RGB :which is .MOV: may result in better audio but at what cost????"

    You're cherry-picking one point of a paragraph and ignoring his other tests of multiple AVC encoders, including Mainconcept and x264. The demonstrated point here is that Norman has actually done quality testing comparing h.264 encoders vs a ridiculously high-quality file. Norman has also (correctly) noted that Youtube itself is using the x264 encoder, not the Mainconcept one used by Hitfilm. Different encoders have different options and settings available to the end user. Setting brought up above, like CABAC, B-frames and GOP length are not accessible from Hitfilm, while they are in other encoders, like Handbrake. Unstated by Norman is that the truly optimal output from Hitfilm would be a Cineform file transcoded in something like Handbrake that gives you full control over every setting in the codec to "exactly" match Youtube's recommendations.

    To repeat myself: 320kbps is the recommended AAC bitrate for 96Khz/24-bit audio. If you'd like to look at the screenshot from the Youtube recommendations page that you uploaded, you'll notice that Youtube lists a 96Khz or 48Khz sample rate. That 320kbps recommendation is for 96Khz audio. Odds are the OP has 44.1 or 48Khz audio. 160kbps would be fine for that. 192kbps gives extra overhead.

    As a side note on that, I point out that this is the second time you've gotten sarcastic about Norman's "credentials," and insisted that the engineers as Google must obviously know best. I point out, for the second time, that you, yourself then, in a later post, suggested NOT following Youtube recommendations but up your bitrate. Which is it, do we follow Youtube recommendations blindly, or do we use them as guidelines and make alterations as experience and experimentation demand? The fact that, multiple times, you've attack a long-standing member of the forum for his recommendations, then proceeded to make a similar recommendation is the exact reason I said above you're not being the force of common sense, you're exacerbating a situation.

    "...was looking for a standard H264 video output with a video bit rate of 384 kbps in HitFilm Express 16...What he got was anything but a simple response or answer to his question..."

    OP asked three questions. One got sidetracked when he decided he hadn't asked one of the questions he did, in fact ask - setting frame rate to 60fps. The second was completely ignored until I answered it, two posts above - multiple audio tracks. The third, the audio bitrate question, did become a bit of an issue. Spyresca - a Pro user who probably doesn't have Express installed - made an honest mistake, since the (licensed) Pro encoder has more options than the (OS) Express encoder. Spyresca had realized the error and had asked to clarify Pro vs Express, when the thread took a digression into how a sub-question on frame rate wasn't actually a sub-question on framerate. Bear in mind the question had been definitively answered at that point with "Hitfilm Express's encoder maxes out at 192kbps." Ironically, by you. This is when Norman (correctly) noted Express uses the OS encoder which has different limits.

    And here we are, circling around the same points again, again, and again.

    Since all three of the OP's questions have been answered, accurately, I'm just gonna close this thread now.

This discussion has been closed.

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