Advice needed for editing 4k h.264 / h.265 & 2.7k both 30fps

nictu
nictu Website User Posts: 14 Just Starting Out*

Hi,

My hardware: Windows 10 64bit / 8 Gb RAM / **NVIDIA GeFORCE GTX1030 / AMD Ryzen 3 1300x Quad Core 3.5Ghz

** NOTE the GTX1030 has 2Gb of GDDR5 RAM - NOT DDR4 as fitted in some GTX1030 cards. Also the GTX1030 was released in 2017. I have installed the latest drivers but NVIDIA lists these as 'Gamer Ready' drivers.

Originally I built the above spec PC to edit 1080p video for YouTube.

Recently I've needed to edit drone footage recorded in either 4k or 2.7k 30fps (29.97fps)

The minimum specs for hitfilm ( from the website ) are as follows:

  • Windows: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit), Microsoft Windows 8 (64-bit)
  • Internet connection: Required for online activation
  • Processor: 4th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors or AMD equivalent.
  • RAM: 4GB (8 GB Recommended)
  • Graphics card:
    • NVIDIA GeForce 600 (Kepler) series (2012)
    • AMD Radeon R5 240 (2013)
    • Intel HD Graphics 5000 (GT3) (2013)
    • Video memory 1 GB minimum (2GB or more required for 4K UHD)

I completely understand if my PC is not up to spec, as I mentioned earlier, originally I only intended to edit 1080p as at the time I didn't have access to a 4k / 2.7k cameras. * the cameras are actually DJI drones, Mavic 2 Pro and Mini.

Using a Hitfilm Template of '4k UHD @ 30fps', the problem I have is playing footage in the 'Trimmer' or 'Viewer' panels is EXTREMELY slow. I've tried changing the 'Playback Quality' of both panels to 'Fastest' but this makes no difference.

But according to Minimum System Requirements for Version 15.2 released on November 3, 2020, I should be able to work with 4k and 2.7k video footage ??

I'm a complete amateur and budget is very tight. I can upgrade part of my system but not all at once. Unless there's some 'setup' I can do when installing Hitfilm that would make a difference?

Is it possible to make a Proxy in Hitfilm 15.2?

Many Thanks,

Nick.

Comments

  • nictu
    nictu Website User Posts: 14 Just Starting Out*

    Hi,

    My hardware: Windows 10 64bit / 8 Gb RAM / **NVIDIA GeFORCE GTX1030 / AMD Ryzen 3 1300x Quad Core 3.5Ghz

    ** NOTE the GTX1030 has 2Gb of GDDR5 RAM - NOT DDR4 as fitted in some GTX1030 cards. Also the GTX1030 was released in 2017.

    Originally I built the above spec PC to edit 1080p video for YouTube. 

    Recently I've needed to edit drone footage recorded in either 4k or 2.7k 30fps (29.97fps)

    The minimum specs for hitfilm ( from the website ) are as follows:


    Windows: Microsoft Windows 10 (64-bit), Microsoft Windows 8 (64-bit)

    Internet connection: Required for online activation

    Processor: 4th Generation Intel® Core™ Processors or AMD equivalent.

    RAM: 4GB (8 GB Recommended)

    Graphics card:

    NVIDIA GeForce 600 (Kepler) series (2012)

    AMD Radeon R5 240 (2013)

    Intel HD Graphics 5000 (GT3) (2013)

    Video memory 1 GB minimum (2GB or more required for 4K UHD)


    I completely understand if my PC is not up to spec, as I mentioned earlier, originally I only intended to edit 1080p as at the time I didn't have access to a 4k / 2.7k cameras. * the cameras are actually DJI drones, Mavic 2 Pro and Mini.

    Using a Hitfilm Template of '4k UHD @ 30fps', the problem I have is playing footage in the 'Trimmer' or 'Viewer' panels is EXTREMELY slow.

    But according to Minimum System Requirements I should be able to edit 4k and 2.7k video footage ??

    I'm a complete amateur and budget is very tight. I can upgrade part of my system but not all at once.

    So I just need advice as to which part to upgrade first, or could this be helped by some further setup of hitfilm, for instance can I setup 'Proxies' of my footage?

    Many Thanks,

    Nick.

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Website User Posts: 4,062 Enthusiast

    But according to Minimum System Requirements for Version 15.2 released on November 3, 2020, I should be able to work with 4k and 2.7k video footage ??

    Minimum requirements are just that minimum to run the app. It does not mean it will run at a certain performance level for any project.

    UHD/4K requires a powerful PC relative to 1080. High frame rate needs a more powerful PC. By high I mean greater than 30fps.

    In another duplicate thread of yours you mention some media is 10-bit AVC/H.264. 10-bit and/or 4:2:2 chroma subsampling will decode much slower than the typical 8-bit 4:2:0 AVC media. Again requiring a more powerful PC or more likely requiring a transcode to something with lower overhead to make decoding the media easier for Hitfilm. Typical AVC media, 8-bit 4:2:0, decodes very well in Hitfilm when the GPU hardware decoder is being used.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,581 Ambassador

    @nictu I merged your two thread. One thread per question/issue, please. keeps the forum clean, and ,ultimately it's better for helping you. Keeps all the discussion in one place.

    Otherwise, as @NormanPCN says, there are several variables in playback speed, and there's a difference between meeting minimum requirements and speedy, smooth operation.

    Minimum requirements merely means the software should be stable and able to function.

  • triforcefx
    triforcefx United StatesModerator, Website User Posts: 1,183 Moderator

    The above answers are correct. In short, 4K takes significantly more processing power than 1080p. While you are somewhat comfortably within HitFilm’s minimum spec, your experience might not necessarily be a smooth one... if it was out of spec, you’d likely see far more crashes, or HitFilm would refuse to run at all, so at least it runs.


    Now for your options:

    Option 1 is the obvious one: Get/build a new computer. I don’t see any single one of your components that could simply be swapped out to (more-or-less) guarantee smooth 4k editing performance... your entire computer would need upgrades to do that.

    As you mentioned though, it sounds like that’s not an option, so let’s try something else.

    Option 2: Just deal with the lag. It sounds like this is one of the few times you’ve had to deal with 4K footage, so if you absolutely need to export in 4K, just deal with it and hope you never have to deal with 4K again.

    Which brings me to Option 3: Downscale your video to 1080p. If your final resolution doesn’t matter that much, take your 4K footage and transcode it into a HitFilm-optimized 1080p file. You get the speed you normally have, and most people can’t really tell the difference between 4K and 1080p unless it’s side-by-side.


    Hope that helps.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 2,005 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2020

    Hi,

    Is it possible to make a Proxy in Hitfilm 15.2?

    Other than transcoding to AVC or intermediate, or lowering playback quality, Pre rendering is as close youll get https://www.manula.com/manuals/fxhome/hitfilm-pro/15/en/topic/pre-rendering?q=Pre+render

    Another option is RAM preview, which as you might tell is based on how much RAM you allocate. Its 1000x faster than pre rendering https://www.manula.com/manuals/fxhome/hitfilm-pro/15/en/topic/cache-options?q=Ram+preview


    @triforcefx

    Option 1 is the obvious one: Get/build a new computer. I don’t see any single one of your components that could simply be swapped out to (more-or-less) guarantee smooth 4k editing performance... your entire computer would need upgrades to do that.

    The AM4 platform and 1300x CPU utilizes DDR4 RAM. AMD also implements native global support, so even if @nictu is using a A320 chipset board, it is still possible to upgrade from the current 4C/4T to a 16C/32T 3950X. The VRM will be taking a massive hit, but the point still stands, 4-16 cores is a massive range.

    Its not possible to recommend a GPU to upgrade to without knowing the specs of the power supply and case dimensions, but the GT 1030 2 is pretty much equivalent to a GTX 750 Ti. Its not suited to deal with 1080p and above VFX shots, but plain editing should be fine, IMO...

    The core components can be kept - Motherboard, RAM (if mobo and dimms are 2x4, then a new RAM kit will be required), Case (likely), Power supply (likely)

    Option 2: Just deal with the lag. It sounds like this is one of the few times you’ve had to deal with 4K footage, so if you absolutely need to export in 4K, just deal with it and hope you never have to deal with 4K again.

    This seems counter-intuitive, considering whats asked for here. @nictu asks if there are alternatives, not just on the software side, that would enable a smoother workflow. 4k is not as demanding as some people make it out to be. With modern hardware its easy to achieve a satisfactory workflow, provided your expectations are realistic -- real time 4k Hollywood VFX is obviously an extreme example of how far the scale goes from just playback and editing, thats a huge scale - but it's yet another point that is often misunderstood and bears repeating.

    I'm not fond of this type of advise because it can be dangerous to @nictu or anyone else that comes across this thread in the future and are facing a similar situation.

    There are options, and there are more questions that we should be asking:

    - Storage drive(s) make & model? Optimizing storage can significantly boost performance


    - Power supply make & model?


    - Motherboard make & model?


    - Case make & model?


    - Budget?


    - Currency?


    - Ordering online or local shopping? List site(s)

    Knowing the answers to these additional questions, will allow us to tailor your next purchase to maximize performance for your $.

    Its also worth knowing that Black Friday is just around the corner. It officially begins on Nov 27, but deals may start to show up sooner than that. This time of year offers really great deals on PC components.

    There are users on this forum that can help you along the way, even explaining what everything means so that you are more confident when making your next purchase. At the end of the day, it is your money - not ours.

  • WhiteCranePhoto
    WhiteCranePhoto Website User Posts: 928 Enthusiast

    You're probably tripping over the fact that currently, HitFilm isn't able to use hardware decoding for h.264 and HEVC... which is a banner feature in the upcoming 16.

    Neither of those codecs is NLE friendly, their overhead is insane, but when implemented in hardware, the CPU doesn't have to deal with it, so it's free to do everything else. Without hardware decoding, it will consume your CPU.

    If you convert that footage to Cineform you'd probably be able to work with it a lot more easily. Another possibility is to download the Grass Valley codec pack and use their free codec, it's similar to ProRes and AVID's DNxHR, but without the licensing restrictions and all. Add it, and you can emit AVIs in HQX.

    That said, Cineform does work well in HitFilm, but I think HQX might be lighter weight computationally, while being bulkier (as is normal for a mezzanine codec).

    And when HitFilm 16 ships, you might be able to start skipping the transcoding phase, because your GPU has hardware h.264 support, though I'm not sure about whether or not it has hardware HEVC (aka H.265) support.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 2,005 Just Starting Out

    @WhiteCranePhoto

    HitFilm isn't able to use hardware decoding for h.264 and HEVC... which is a banner feature in the upcoming 16.

    For Mac users this is true. Windows version of HitFilm supports hw decode for Avc

  • WhiteCranePhoto
    WhiteCranePhoto Website User Posts: 928 Enthusiast

    Ah! Well, you learn something new every day. I've only tried h.265 in HitFIlm, because I don't edit anything in H.264. :)

  • NormanPCN
    NormanPCN Website User Posts: 4,062 Enthusiast

    Hitfilm has supported AVC/H.264 hardware decoding on Windows Nvidia/Intel since V12. AMD since V14.

  • nictu
    nictu Website User Posts: 14 Just Starting Out*

    Thank you to everybody for your input. As I suspected a higher spec pc will be needed...

    Also Sorry about the double post at the beginning, it was an accident.

    Many Thanks,

    nictu.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 2,005 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2020

    @nictu HitFilm will support HEVC decoding soon in version 16 next month. Your GT 1030 supports that feature. In other words, that will be the cheapest HEVC decode capable GPU for smooth 4k editing. Lets just hope theres no artificial limiter in HitFilm due to available VRAM.

    I would hold off with a final decision for now. At least until you get to experience it next month, while reporting back to us. If im right, itll serve you, and anyone else really well, for just $60.

    However, read my post above which walks you through what options you have if youre looking to upgrade, since there was some misinformation.

  • nictu
    nictu Website User Posts: 14 Just Starting Out*

    Thanks Kevin,

    I will be interested to see what V16 does.

    nictu.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 2,005 Just Starting Out

    @nictu Now would be a good time to see if hevc decoding on 420 clips work as intended on the GT 1030 for playback in HitFilm 16. I advise trying this in a new project.

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