Batman V Superman Trailer Leaked

Comments

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    edited July 2014
    Visually, it's fantastic. Snyder and his team can make a pretty picture. I still have great trepidation about this film.
    To even try to homage that Dark Knight Returns sequence is a mistake. That comic sequence works because that Bruce and Clark have decades of experience: Bruce is so much smarter than Clark and had ample time to prepare. Bruce ultimately wins because he can predict Clark's actions, almost to the second. It's a horrific climax to a long relationship.
    This can not work in a single film. Especially with all the other heroes getting added. You just can't get from first meeting to THAT in 2 hours.
    It's like the mighty Spock scream of "KHAAAAAAAN!" in "Into Darkness." It's laugh-out-loud bad, because NuKirk and NuSpock can barely stand each other, much less be the "brothers" Kirk and Spock are in "Wrath of Khan."
    I just hope there's room for a good story to breathe, and given the past work of the Writers, Director and Executive Producer, I have doubts.
  • GKDantasGKDantas Website User Posts: 133
    Cant see the video...
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    and its disabled now
  • GKDantasGKDantas Website User Posts: 133
    Yes, coudnt see again! hahahaha
  • MatthiasClaflinMatthiasClaflin Website User Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    It'll likely continue going up and being taken down within hours. I'm sure after Comic Con they will release it to YT or something.
    I've seen it a couple times, Idk how I feel about. Definitely not any more or less interested in this property because of this clip. I am a pretty big Batman fan so I'm already pretty excited for this movie. I enjoyed The Man Of Steel and trust Snyder with this. However, this little snippet that they decided to show at Comic Con doesn't really make me anymore excited. Bat suit looks pretty cool. Superman looks pretty much like he did in Man Of Steel. So, it's just meh.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    It's fun, and well shot, etc. Also feels a bit like a fanfilm - albeit one with huge production values.
    But, yeah. We all know Snyder can create incredible visuals. He's one of the best visualists working in cinema right now. But he's yet to prove he can engage with sophisticated material and maintain subtext and subtlety. Even Watchmen, which had all that built-in to the source text, ends up being very 'surface' and lacking in depth (though I should note I do nonetheless LOVE Synder's film) compare to the comic.
    Given the power setup from Man of Steel, there's no feasible way for Batman to beat Superman in a fight, as Triem says. Aside from that, the emotional aspect of two friends and comrades fighting each other just won't be there after less than 1 film together.
    Then again, if they're heading towards Justice League, presumably they work out their differences by the end of this.
    One thing that DID excite me is Superman looking generally quite evil up in the sky. The assumption that a super powered being like Superman would ALWAYS be a good guy is part of what makes the character potentially dull (same with Cap America). Having him straying towards the dark side would be a nice, unexpected angle.
    Or maybe they're going with some kind of Superman Goes Evil Due To Kryptonite plot rehash, with Batman being the only person who can save him/the world?
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Simon he will be in a mech suit like in the dark knight returns animated movies
  • TimLan635TimLan635 Website User Posts: 50 Enthusiast
    This is not the video you guys are looking for, but it does have a little bit of Batman vs. Superman in it:
    :) 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks8PZ8X6Yo8
  • fredclipsfredclips Website User Posts: 228
    @Simon he will be in a mech suit like in the dark knight returns animated movies


    I've got to ask! :)
    How would a mech suit make any difference at all? Isn't Superman basically so OP he could just squash a mech suit with his eyelids? It's not like large buildings were a threat to him in any way.
    I know everyone here has most likely watched "How it should have ended". But any Batman vs Superman talk just reminds me of the conversation at the end of this clip. Around the 2:25 moment.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seBpXt8_6xs
     

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    Or, this: http://www.dorkly.com/post/66139/batman-v-superman-sunset-of-punches#!bqk

    The power armor doesn't make a difference--in Dark Knight Returns, the armor, the tapping into the power grid, the missles, the sonic weapon, the napalm, the Kryptonite, etc all all distractions. Bruce's real victory isn't about kicking Clark's butt... Where Bruce wins this is because, given the decade-long relationship they have, Bruce knows Clark won't just use his full power and take him out. Bruce knows Clark wil try to reason with him.
    Bruce's REAL plan is hinted at when the recorded message starts playing for Robin with the following words: "By now, if everything is going according to plan, Clark is too busy to listen in."
    Bruce's entire plan is to distract Clark long enough to feed Carrie her instructions so that Bruce can fake his death and get the government (and Clark) off his back.
    THAT is Bruce's plan. Getting Oliver in position to blast some Kryptonite into the fray to pound the crap out of Clark may be fun for Bruce, but it's NOT his primary goal--and, again, this only works because Bruce knows Clark well enough to predict Clark's actions.
    Which is why this is a failure of a story to try ond pull in Dawn of Justice--there's just not enough time to set that up in a single movie involving a first meeting and make it resonate!
  • fredclipsfredclips Website User Posts: 228
    That actually makes some sense. I can imagine someone who knows Superman very very well could plan something like that. But you are right, at the moment Superman is just an Alien who likes to smash buildings and snap necks!  ;) 
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Triem23 I was trying not to give away the story because it sounded like people haven't watched it.  I don't think they are going with the faking the death scene, but I do think they will borrow some elements of that fight.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    Yeah, in my first post,I was avoiding spoilers, then I decided that it's a 28 year old story. But, Snyder has already stated in interviews his first thought for this movie was the "... I want you to remember the one man who beat you." line, which, for reasons argued above, is the wrong inspiration for the first meeting movie.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    edited July 2014
    I can't help but think that mainstream audiences will be utterly confused by the prospect of Batman and Superman fighting. Based on mainstream encounters with those two characters it makes absolutely no sense.
    This is without getting into the issue of Affleck following up Bale's hugely successful and iconic Batman performance - it'll take most of the movie for people to adjust to a new actor and take on the character. Given Snyder's unproven track record of sophisticated storytelling and characters, I'm really not convinced that he'll pull it off.
    It will LOOK lovely, though. (although, having said that, the last third of Man of Steel was just a big mess)
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    If you've never seen it, look for "The Batman-Superman Movie" aka "World's Finest." Originally a three-part episode of the Bruce Timm produced "Superman: The Animated Series" from the 90's ("World's Finest" was the ep title, but sold on it's own as "Batman-Superman Movie.")
    Lex Luthor, Joker... On first meeting, Supes just X-ray visions Bruce's cowl... I won't spoil Bruce's countermove... Bruce Wayne dates Lois! It's got great character moments, epic action sequences and a lot of humor... Watch for Joker's line, "That's it! I forgot the acid!" It's not often that I laugh at Joker, but, in context, that's the perfect line...
    Really, Warner's needs to have Paul Dini writing the movies. His work on Superman, Batman, Batman Beyond, Justice League and Justice League Unlimited shows him to be a rare writer who can sneak an entire scene's worth of subtext with two lines.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    Dini also did pretty good work on the first two Arkham computer games - the first especially. Notably, they also used the cast from the animated show.
  • AndrewAndrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    Chris Terrio wrote Batman V Superman and is (at least allegedly) working on scripting Justice League currently.
    Currently his Academy Award for screenwriting and the whip-sharp, well-executed conversational style of his work on Argo has me enthusiastic with what to expect on those two movies.
  • MatthiasClaflinMatthiasClaflin Website User Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    I'm totally looking forward to this movie, albeit not because of the sneak peak.
    I think it would be great if Batman says, "I want you to remember the one man who beat you" assuming he can actually beat Superman. I don't think that line requires a long history of friendship, but rather could very well be the beginning of a "friendship" or "alliance". I think that to assume they need a long standing relationship for them to fight and Superman to be hesitant, would be silly.
    I assume that in this movie Superman will be dealing with the pressure from the world to better contain himself, since he did just destroy half of Metropolis. This tied into him dealing with the fact that he just killed off the rest of the Kryptonians, will force him to tone it down as far as amount of force he is willing to use. When he fights Batman, I'm sure for the sake of his image, that he will be trying to contain Batman, not kill him. 
    I would also like to say, the new movie "Hercules" with Dwayne Johnson, had very deceptive promotions. I saw that and Guardians this week and definitely prefer Hercules for a number of reasons, probably my favorite movie of the year so far. So I'm not entirely sure I am ready to believe everything they want us to believe this movie will be.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    Another issue I have with the "...one man who beat you..." line in terms of Batman vs. Superman is that the line isn't so much about the Bruce/Clark relationship (the relationship gives much emotional resonance, and explains why Bruce is able to stage-manage his victory) as about Clark's decades long battle for Truth and Justice.
    The Cavil Superman hasn't had that. He's had one movie and we've seen him have one battle. Losing in the second part of the trilogy--well, that's typical trilogy structure, but, again, I question if the import of the line "one man who beat you" will carry when we haven't seen Supes fight a bunch of battles. YOu don't brag about being the "only" one to beat someone when you're basically only the second opponant.
    I WANT to like Batman vs. Superman. I love these characters and think, done right, they can be compelling, exciting, interesting and sympathetic.
    I am worried that Snyder is aiming for a story that he won't give enough room to breathe and resonate. I'm also worried because Snyder as a director can make a pretty picture, but he's never hooked me in emotionally--even at the end of MoS he has that quiet moment when Clark breaks down in Lois's arms--it's the beginning of an emotional moment, but... It's a short shot and it cut to something blowing up.
    I am worried that David S. Goyer is writing the script. Goyer is adept at spinning a roller coaster, but, again, he tend to be a letdown in terms of genuine emotion, and following his own story logic. Looking at Goyer's IMDB page, the only thing he's done that I really liked was Batman Begins (Yeah, not a fan of the other two films in that sequence). In my opinion, Goyer and Nolan ultimately screwed up that Batman Trilogy--I won't rehash that here, because it's a long breakdown, and I'm certain I've done it elsewhere in this forum.
    So--I WANT to like "Dawn of Justice" but I have concerns about a director who is only mediocre, I have concerns he's trying to tell a story that won't work, I have concerns about a scriptwriter who has consistently failed to move and entertain me, and I have concerns that Warners is now adding a whole ton of characters into a two hor movie. Which means these characters aren't going to be well developed.
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    I'm making this a separate post because I'm digressing from my previous topic:
    Batman vs. Superman seems to be a regroup from Warners--and this has to do with the vagaries of Hollywood Accounting, which is notoriously... let's just call it evil.
    It's evil. A good example is Forrest Gump--a $55 million dollar movie with a near $400 million box office, plus whatever home media releases made, plus whatever it made from cable and syndication, PLUS whatever it made from it's royalties from Bubba Gump restaurants. Paramount has never paid the author of the book any royaties for the movie. Paramount claims that this film, which has CLEARLY generated hundreds of millions in profit lost money. There are many many other examples of this BS....
    So now we're going to look at Man of Steel vs. Star Trek: Into Darkness.
    Man of Steel was considered a box office disappointment. MoS had a budget of $225 million and it's box office was about $650 million. Man of Steel 2 was turned into Batman/Superman: Dawn of Justice because of this "disappointing" performance (because Warner's wanted MoS to break a billion). Now we haven't factored in the fact that BEFORE MoS OPENED the movie had made $250 million from product tie-ins and merchandise. Add in cable/syndication, home media, etc, etc, etc, and MoS probably DID pull in close to a billion.
    Star Trek Into Darkness had a production budget of $190 million and it's box office was about $460 million ST:ID was considered the big hit of the summer? Why? MoS cost $60 mil more to make, but pulled in another $200 mil in box office. ST: ID did NOT have news stories about making $250 million in merchandising/promo deals before opening day, so we can assume that ST: ID made less money in tie-ins. Unless it significantly outperformed MoS in home media sales, the bottom line is MoS sold a couple million more tickets than ST: ID.
    So, Why is Trek a "hit" and MoS a "Disappointment?"
    Anyway, the perceived "underperformance" of MoS is why Warners is pushing for a big-ass group movie to kickstart a franchise. I don't get it.
    End of digression.
    Just a reminder--the Batman/Superman Comic Con teaser DID look fantastic. To Snyder's credit, he can generate a great image. Well--he can communicate with his VFX supervisor who will then go away and have a team of artists make a great image....
  • BenBen Website User Posts: 51
    edited August 2014
    Because the successes of the films are measured by their expected return.
    The expected return dictates the marketing budget -- which is frequently unreported and even more commonly very costly -- and the ability for a co-producing studio to procure more funding for their other features from their tentpoles.
    Percentage of net gross against cost is irrelevant if you were hedging other productions against an assumed larger gain for any given film.
    Source: Film degree
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,262 Ambassador
    edited August 2014
    Absolutely true, and we also haven't subtracted theater percentage from gross. Also, often development costs for one project get added to the budget for another--for example, Superman Returns' "$250 Million" budget includes the development costs for Tim Burton's never-made "Superman Lives."
    And remember that marketing budgets are often inflated: Warner's marketing can charge Warner's FIlm Division a ridiculous amount of money for service--and the money stay with Warner. Disney can "spend $10 million" on advertising on ABC--a Disney company--and the money stays with Disney
    So I'll admit I've over-simplified. That said, studios do massage numbers:
    Here's a good one: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121018/01054720744/hollywood-accounting-how-19-million-movie-makes-150-million-still-isnt-profitable.shtml
    And another.. :-) http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/how-hollywood-accounting-can-make-a-450-million-movie-unprofitable/245134/
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    edited August 2014
    Wow you preferred Hercules?  That movie was meh.  Guardians of the Galaxy is probably 1 of the best marvel movies so far and the best movie of the summer.
Sign In or Register to comment.