How to make a path?

tarongve
tarongve Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

Hi. I'm looking for a solution to make a path. My sport of choice is Discgolf, and there is an effekt in Adobe I want to be able to do in Hitfilm. It's called a follow flight. It's when we can see the paht of the disc. Now I have done this with a steady camera by tracking manually and using the lightsword effect. But I can't figure out how to make the start of the track to stay still if i move the camera. It's a bit difficult to explain. If you take a look at the end of this clip. JomezPro move their camera, but the tracking or the path stay still or don't move away from the starting point. How can i make this effect in Hitfilm. I use the 15 pro edition.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FymhKa-pyM

Answers

  • premiere_studios
    premiere_studios Posts: 131 Enthusiast

    you could use the neon path effect. draw your mask where you want it to go however you might have to keyframe the mask

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,298 Power User
    edited October 2020

    If the camera is moving you're going to have to camera solve the scene. That's Foundry or Mocha.

    After that... It's tricky to do a full 3D path. I'm trying to think about what o grab to track the disc vs the background. Can you share the raw clip?

    There are several ways to draw the path. As PremiereStudios said, Neon Path is an option. Sensei has a trick with the Lightsword effect, but that won't work with a camera move. You could use the particle sim to drop a simple trail of dense dots. The Particle Sim is the only true 3D option of those three, so it's likely your best bet. As I said the trick is figuring out how to track the OBJECT in a camera solved scene.

  • tarongve
    tarongve Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    Yes I know. The 3d tracking is very difficult. I dont have a raw clip at the moment.

    But the particle simulator may work.

    So then I have to solve the camera with Fundry, guess that's the best option? And then track the object, in this case, the disc. Make it a 3d point and then use the particle sim?

    I have done this when the camera/drone is faceing only one way. Just a simple track, manually of course, to much blur.. but as soon as I turn the camera the path moves with the camera.

  • gimly1000
    gimly1000 Posts: 28 Just Starting Out

    you should try tracking where the path goes out of frame then set that as the end point. (it may say I am just starting out but I have been using HitFilm for two years)

  • gimly1000
    gimly1000 Posts: 28 Just Starting Out

    and if the camera continues to move I suggest moving the end point farther away at the same speed as the camera moves (this may be too compicated if the camera moves a TON)

  • gimly1000
    gimly1000 Posts: 28 Just Starting Out
  • tarongve
    tarongve Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    I have tried that before.. Made a tracking point on the tee, where the throw starts, and then parent the tracking to that point.. but that didnt work

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,298 Power User

    OK, I have some time to more fully discuss the problem. I don't have a solution, yet.

    Let's quickly start with the three types of tracking tools in Hitfilm Pro. There's the 1 and 2-point tracker, Foundry and Mocha.

    1 and 2-point tracking is 2D. Period. One must have a minimum of 3 points to even begin thinking about 3D data. Tarongve, when you say "I made a tracking point on the tee..." I'm guessing you used a 1-point track. This only tracks the chosen feature in the X/Y axis in 2D space and is basically useless for following a thrown frisbee with a moving/tilting camera that needs to track 3D space.

    So, if your camera has a lot of movement, and has a zoom, the 1 and 2-point trackers are probably right out.

    Foundry is a point tracker on steriods. it generates hundreds, if not thousands of points and uses that point cloud to salve for 3D space. Foundry assumes everything it's tracking is static and unmoving (in Foundry you often have to use a matte layer to mask out moving objects in the footage as it will throw the tracker off). There's a trick in foundry where you mask out everything but a single moving object and track that for a fake "object tracking," but, again, what foundry is doing is tracking what it THINKS is a static object that it's moving a camera around. Problem with disc golf it you're tracking a tiny little disc, which is basically a point, and there's not enough information for Foundry to work with. You cannot track a scene and and object in that scene with Foundry.

    So Foundry is also, probably, right out.

    That leaves Mocha. Mocha is a Planar tracker which works by judging the position of what you tell mocha represents flat, rectangular and (again) un-moving surfaces. If you're doing disc golf and tilting up and panning to track a disc in the sky I hope there's always trees in shot and some clouds in the sky for mocha to find texture, because Mocha always needs at least two planes in the shot to track. However, unlike Foundry, in Mocha you can solve for the camera, then go back and solve a moving object inside the 3D space.

    This makes Mocha, probably, your best choice.

    This tutorial was done with Hitfilm Ultimate 2 and Mocha v3, so the interfaces will be different, but the basic procedures are exactly he saem, and this is the only Hitfilm-specific tutorial I know of that covers scene-solving and object tracking in mocha. It's a starting point.

    See, the problem isn't the PATH... That's still extremely easy to make in the particle sim (The particle sim part should take under two minutes, since you're make a point emitter, set the emitter to follow the 3D tracked disc, turn the particle speed down to 0, turn the particles per second up to maybe 500, and then adjust color setting). The entire problem is getting a 3D track of the camera movement, then generating the track of the object in the space.

    I'm going to look at one of the After Effects tutorials on this. Thing is, I've found four different tutorials, but three of them are using a static camera. I do note that all four tutorials say at the beginning that a fair amount of manual adjustment will need to be done. Whatever solution arises, it's probably not going to be "automagical" where Hitfilm does everything with no input. I suspect the AE stuff will turn out to be a faked 2D line with a lot of manual scaling and adjustments to fake perspective, where I'm trying to actually come up with a 3D line. We'll see. Back later.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,298 Power User
    edited October 2020

    HAH! I've overthought this! After watching over two hours of AE tutorials on this and the trick is, IT'S NOT A 3D PATH!

    How everyone else does this is by doing a 3D camera solve, picking an arbitrary location - some people choose near the tee, others some spot off in the distance - and sticking a 3D layer on that spot. That layer is then scaled up to fill the frame at the widest part of the frame.

    One tutorial I watched 2D point tracked the position of the disc and used that null to drive a particle line as I described above. The others literally just used a shape layer and hand-followed the disc placing points.

    Hitfilm doesn't do shape layers in the same way as AE so, in Hitfilm one would just draw a mask by hand-following the disc then use Neon Path, animating the amount of mask the path is drawn in.

    The Lightsword path you've used on the static shots would work as well.

    The 3D plane reacts a bit with the camera move and zoom, but the motion trail is a 2D line and not actually reacting with true parallax.

    Anything like the width of the trail changing with distance is also hand-animated.

    Basically imagine a giant pane of glass a couple of feet in front of the camera (3D plane) and, an invisible hand just drawing the path on the glass with a marker (as seen from the position of the camera). So as the camera pans a bit and zooms in you get an illusion of 3D depth (shooting through the glass and past the marker line).

    Yeah, I totally overthought this, seeking for a true 3D track and path, overlooking the fact that it's just a 2D line on a 3D card so the camera can zoom past the card. Heh! Could have stopped after the first tutorial I watched, but figured SOMEONE was doing it in true 3D!

  • tarongve
    tarongve Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    Hehe.. thanks though. I will try again. There's a turnament coming this weekend, so I hoping for some fottage then. Not sure what you ment by using the neon path though. This is where the point of not enough hours of basic training in Hitfilm comes to life. I think I understand, but somehow I don't know how to put in effect. I'll search the world wide web for better understanding of the neon path.

    Anyways thanks again. It's nice to have a place to ask for help.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,298 Power User

    This tutorial will show you how to make an open ended Neon Path, which is what you'll eventually have to do.


  • tarongve
    tarongve Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    Thanks a lot :)