Hitfilm Express 15.1 crashes after I make a composite shot

baroncornelius
baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

I am editing a sports highlight reel with multiple clips. When I move to make a composite shot of another clip, after making a composite shot and editing it, HF crashes. I've uploaded a bunch of dump files of the issue. I've updated all drivers and OS. The only thing wonky I've noticed about my specs is the video memory is 128 MB with 4171 MB total available graphics memory. On a previous version (14, I believe) I did not have the same issue.

The process is as follows:

I make a composite shot, add a tracker and some text, preview and save the clip with no issue. As soon as I create another composite shot, system crashes. The same process has happened 15 times or more and happens exactly the same each time.

Anyone have a fix or suggestions?

System specs:

Lenovo thinkpad

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @1.80GHz 1.99GHz

8GB RAM

64-bit OS x64-based processor

Windows 10 Pro

version 1909

Intel (R) UHD Graphics 620

Comments

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,995 Just Starting Out
    edited October 2020

    Hi,

    Welcome to HitFilm!

    Your specs are on the lower end of things, depending on CPU load, either just below or a bit above the minimum requirements to run HitFilm Express 15. Your CPU is a U series CPU, which essentially means low powered, not meant to run at 100% load for any longer durations really, due to insufficient cooling. I would guess that it has a heatsink with a fan on it due to it being an i7, but some also come passively cooled. The cooling solution is entirely up to the OEM or brand, not the manufacturer (intel) in almost all cases. If you hear a fan spinning in your laptop then that is better.

    The video memory is shared with your RAM, in some laptop BIOS it's possible to adjust the amount of VRAM (video RAM). With Lenovo however, I think they scrapped that some time ago.

    What format are your video files? Reducing the load on your system is high priority. Download and run Mediainfo: https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo In Mediainfo, open one or more of the video files you're working with (just 1 if they're all in the same format). Save as .txt and copy and paste the contents of that .txt here.

    Some things to try:

    • Open task manager and disable any startup programs on that list that you don't need immediately booted up upon system boot. Some of them take up RAM which means HitFilm is receiving less resources to work with. Reboot your PC after making changes in the startup tab.
    • In your battery settings, change the power saving scheme to high performance, or manually change the CPU limiter to 100%, to avoid throttling based on task and instead force throttling on temperatures only.
    • Monitor your CPU temperatures, download this program which will help you do so: https://www.hwinfo.com/
    • The induvidual core temperatures should not reach or exceed the tjunction which is listed as 100 C. Some thermal sensors are setup so that throttling of voltage and the multiplier kick in much sooner than that, however in laptops it's typically 85 C and up, the norm is 95 C and shutdown after that to prevent damage to the CPU. Laptops have higher sensor targets than desktop CPU's.

    If hwinfo thinks that your CPU is overheating, then further steps will have to be taken. It will depend on the readouts.

  • baroncornelius
    baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    Thanks for the welcome and reply! Just to clarify, it's not my computer that crashes, it's the HitFilm Express program that crashes. Does that alter your recommendations at all?

    Here's the Mediainfo results for one of the clips:

    General

    Complete name              : C:\Users\baron\OneDrive\Desktop\DEFENSE AND LOSS CLIPS FOR REEL\Hammers 2022 vs Team MD 2022 - Wednesday - Baltimore Summer Kickoff 2020 - SESSION 2 2020_329_9.mp4

    Format                  : MPEG-4

    Format profile              : Base Media

    Codec ID                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)

    File size                : 7.77 MiB

    Duration                 : 9 s 260 ms

    Overall bit rate             : 7 039 kb/s

    Writing application           : Lavf57.83.100


    Video

    ID                    : 1

    Format                  : AVC

    Format/Info               : Advanced Video Codec

    Format profile              : [email protected]

    Format settings             : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames

    Format settings, CABAC          : Yes

    Format settings, Reference frames    : 4 frames

    Codec ID                 : avc1

    Codec ID/Info              : Advanced Video Coding

    Duration                 : 9 s 260 ms

    Bit rate                 : 7 034 kb/s

    Width                  : 1 280 pixels

    Height                  : 720 pixels

    Display aspect ratio           : 16:9

    Frame rate mode             : Constant

    Frame rate                : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS

    Color space               : YUV

    Chroma subsampling            : 4:2:0

    Bit depth                : 8 bits

    Scan type                : Progressive

    Bits/(Pixel*Frame)            : 0.127

    Stream size               : 7.76 MiB (100%)

    Language                 : English

    Color range               : Limited

    Color primaries             : BT.709

    Transfer characteristics         : BT.709

    Matrix coefficients           : BT.709

    Codec configuration box         : avcC

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,995 Just Starting Out
    edited October 2020

    it's the HitFilm Express program that crashes. Does that alter your recommendations at all?>

    It does not. Those are all things to try and you should. If something was explained poorly then i can try to explain things better.

    ---

    Try exporting 2 or more videos to Go Pro Cineform 10 bit. You dont need to mess with any export settings for Cineform. Your files are AVC (H.264) which is hardware decode-able, but in your system it isnt, assuming theres no dedicated GPU in your system. So youre left with a high overhead decode which requires much more resources to decode.

    Then import those 2 videos in HitFilm, or more to match, and using only the Cineform videos, are you able to replicate the crashing?

  • baroncornelius
    baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    "If something was explained poorly then i can try to explain things better"

    Quite the contrary! Your explanation was so thorough it made me want to tighten up my original post, lol! This is a waaay more complicated issue than I anticipated. It's a brand new laptop and I figured I'd be good to edit some 10second clips for my son's highlight reel. An earlier version gave me trouble for a minute till I updated the drivers. Then it was problem free. I was hoping to hear, 'Oh yeah, this is a HitFilm issue and here's the patch for it.' Clearly not the case 😕


    "Your files are AVC (H.264) which is hardware decode-able, but in your system it isnt, assuming theres no dedicated GPU in your system."

    Is there a way to determine if I have a dedicated GPU?


    I am having trouble finding the Go Pro Cineform 10 bit. Do you have a link? All I could find was Go Pro Studio. I installed it but it doesn't recognize any of my clips.

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,995 Just Starting Out
    edited October 2020

    Is there a way to determine if I have a dedicated GPU?

    There is. Windows search > dxdiag > Display tab. The UHD integrated GPU and the dedicated GPU should be listed there.

    I am having trouble finding the Go Pro Cineform 10 bit. Do you have a link? All I could find was Go Pro Studio. I installed it but it doesn't recognize any of my clips.

    GoPro Cineform is a codec, like H.264. You can export you current H.264 video to Cineform in HitFilm itself. Select it in the drop down menu in the export queue in HitFilm.


    It's a brand new laptop

    I find that this is typically the case when it comes to performance related issues. Laptops, as opposed to desktops (Windows 10) have several different tiers. The "business", in short it just means that the manufacturer is aiming to screw over the customer as much as possible. Thinnest design (lowering performance, usually hand in hand with heat dissipation issues), sleek and sexy and light design. They can get away with it because they never explain anything in layman's terms.

    For the price of a "business" laptop you can easily 10x the performance of it by buying a "gaming" laptop, or "workstation" laptop, the latter which would be for heavy animation suites like MAYA (think on the Disney/Pixar scale). These suites require ECC RAM/VRAM, high floating point performance and a very high viewport performance for real time editing.

    Neither which HitFilm is or can take advantage of due to HitFilm's render engine being more similar to an engine that would be used for games, hence why HitFilm and infact almost all non-linear editors like Adobe suites, DaVinci are much faster with the gaming branded setups. By maximizing CPU power, GPU power, RAM and drives, you ensure the best performance possible in these suites.

    This is very much a pet peeve of mine, having been a systems configurator among other things for customers out of the loop. This is something i wish would change, but fact is money talks. I cant tell People what they should spend their money on, but usually what happens is that the customer is disappointed in the end.

    Without trying to change topic, if you can return your laptop then i would do that. Just for the sake of longevity and performance alone. You didnt ask for my opinion on that specifically, perhaps it was a good purchase in your eyes, and thats fine too. At the end of the day, its your needs and wants. Im just merely attempting to educate you and others on the subject.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,079 Ambassador

    To build a bit off what @kevin_n (gonna take time to get used to the name change, "CNK") wrote.

    Laptops are tricky beasts. They will always be less powerful-per-dollar than a desktop simply because of the challenges in making everything smaller. As Kevin ntoed the laptop makers keep pushing for smaller, thinner, lighter... and terrible systems - especially in the "business laptop" market.

    Now, I'm not certain what you paid, but, based on your specs I think you have a Lenovo Thinkpad e580, which retails for between about $1000.00 and $1600.00 (USD) depending on the vendor.

    I'm don't know your country of origin, but, hopefully you can find an online vendor specializing in gaming laptops. For a decade I would have recommended xoticpc.com for the US, but over the last couple of years their customer service has gone to seed. They sell good systems at good prices, but dealing with the is so annoying that I've shifted to cyberpowerpc.com for my latest build. A custom gaming config site will let you play around with different components, and, if you want to get a little deeper into it, you can have tabes open for multiple vendors configuring nearly-identical systems to search for the best prices.

    Sager/Clevo gaming laptops have tended to be the best price/power ratio I've come across. Well made machines with powerful components and not a lot of compromises in design. Until I shifted to Cyberpower for this last build I'd been using nothing but Sager/Clevo for over a decade. usually, in that brand, I could configure a powerful system that was hundreds of dollars cheaper than an identical configuration from Dell, Alienware, MSI, ASUS, etc...

    Cyberpower makes their own machines. I recently picked up a Ryzen 7 4800H (One of the best mobile CPUs in 2020) with an Nvidia 2060 (still a pretty good GPU) for about $1200 (Ok, I upgraded to 32GB RAM and 2TB of SSD, so $1500...). This is about the middle of the range of the Thinkpad prices, but I got a 2020 CPU and a powerful discrete GPU for my money. Cyberpower uses good internal componants. Where it seems they've skimped it the casing and frame are all plastic or polycarbonite, rather than metal, and the onboard microphone is terrible, but the CPU and GPU are pretty blazing fast in Hitfilm. I have two other machines, and one of them is fairly close to your Thinkpad's specs. Getting something with a discrete GPU will literally make Hitfilm at least 10 times faster.

    For sake of argument, Cyberpower has a laptop with an i7-9750H and Nvidia 1660ti (6GB) 8GB RAM and a 240GB SSD for $799. I can custom configure that to 16GB memory and a 1TB SSD for about $940. That's a more recent CPU and a discrete GPU, twice as much RAM and possibly more storage than the Thinkpad for a bit less than the bottom price range I'm seeing for the Lenovo.

  • baroncornelius
    baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    @kevin_n You were right, no dedicated GPU.

    I exported the clips in Cineform 10-bit and then dropped them back into HitFilm on the timeline of the edit I've been working with. Same issue with the crash at the same place. I am able to create composite shot, add a point tracker, attach text to the tracker, review and save clip with no issue. As soon as I try to create another composite shot, HitFilm has encountered a problem and needs to close......

    I tried starting a new project with those .mov clips and had the same thing happen at the same place on the new project as well.

    @kevin_n @Triem23 I shoulda talked to you before I bought! It's a Lenovo T480s. It's 6 months old so outside of the return window. I wasn't super pressed as I figured editing highlight reels and an occasional comedy sketch wouldn't place a huge demand on the system and hardware. I won't make that mistake in the future, to be sure. Being trapped at home during this pandemic has got me thinking it might be worth getting a desktop system. I'd take care to beef that up accordingly. That being said, should I roll back to an earlier version of Hitfilm and just limp along with that to use what I have or do we have more troubleshooting ahead?

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,995 Just Starting Out
    edited October 2020

    I exported the clips in Cineform 10-bit and then dropped them back into HitFilm on the timeline of the edit I've been working with. Same issue with the crash at the same place.

    Very peculiar... What this tells us is that while it can still be due to insufficient resources - did you try any/all of the suggested things to try?

    This to me says that something in HitFilm is preventing it from working. A dev would have to chime in. Alternatively, contact customer service.

    I shoulda talked to you before I bought! It's a Lenovo T480s. It's 6 months [...] I won't make that mistake in the future, to be sure

    In retrospect, everybody can be a genius. It wasnt a mistake either. By that logic, anything you have purchased falls into that category, theres always something that will be better. There will always be new things to learn.

     it might be worth getting a desktop system.

    Laptops are great if youre on the go. Desktops will be vastly superior to a laptop. You can buy a small case, mini-ITX for instance, but you would still need a display to plug in to each time you are on the go.

    should I roll back to an earlier version of Hitfilm and just limp along with that to use what I have or do we have more troubleshooting ahead?

    Repeating myself here but, have you tried these?

    • Open task manager and disable any startup programs on that list that you don't need immediately booted up upon system boot. Some of them take up RAM which means HitFilm is receiving less resources to work with. Reboot your PC after making changes in the startup tab.
    • In your battery settings, change the power saving scheme to high performance, or manually change the CPU limiter to 100%, to avoid throttling based on task and instead force throttling on temperatures only.

    The right course of action in my opinion would be to wait for a developer to chime in, or speed that up by contacting customer service. In my eyes this is a bug, not a hardware issue. Will be interesting to see what comes of it.

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,079 Ambassador

    Just out of curiousity, the Comp you're trying to create. Have you already added effects to the clip before trying to convert? There's a known bug when creating a Comp Shot from a clip that has the Curves filter on it. I think it's fixed internally (for a future update). If you've already added a Curves effect to a clip that you're trying to make a Comp, just remove the Curve, then re-apply it.

  • baroncornelius
    baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    @kevin_n Repeating myself here but, have you tried these?

    I have with the same result.

    I started a new project and tried something different. I converted all of the clips to composite shots prior to editing. I was able to do so with no issue. I added a tracker and linked the text to it in one of the comp shots I created. As soon as I tried to open the next comp for editing: Hitfilm has encountered a problem and needs to exit....

    Fortunately, I am able to edit the clips and save them. The pain comes in having to restart the program for each one. I've got one left (out of 25). This has been the worst thing that has happened to me the last few days so I'm still counting it as a win!

    I'll follow your recommendation to contact support.

    @Triem23 I have not. I thought you may be on to something as many of the clips come from a site that hosts game film and has a clip feature I used to gather clips. I figured they might have something about them that was causing HF to go wonky but a fair amount of the clips were shot on my DSLR and the same thing happens with them.

    @kevin_n @Triem23 Thank you both for your help and input! I'll post an update once I hear back from support.

  • baroncornelius
    baroncornelius Posts: 6 Just Starting Out

    @kevin_n @Triem23

    So, the help desk says this is a known issue they have fixed for the next update. FYI. Thanks again for the help!

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,079 Ambassador

    Glad to help!

    So... I can't say for sure, but, for as long as I've been an FXHOME user, with only one exception, there's always been a big end-of-November update with a "Black Friday" sale. It's a reasonable assumption the next update should release in four-to-six weeks, and will be a "full number" update with new, sexy features to go with the boring (but important) bug fixes.