Canon cameras and Sony Vegas

NullUnit
NullUnit Website User Posts: 791 Just Starting Out
Just wondering what other people who use Canon cameras and Vegas do in regard to the session property settings and video footage.
What I mean is: If you shoot 24p and the camera is putting it into a 60i wrapper Vegas will see the properties of that footage as 60i. I'm wondering if the session properties for the footage should be set to 24p or left at 60i, but then rendered to 24p.

Comments

  • rgbii
    rgbii Website User Posts: 965 Just Starting Out
    edited July 2014
    I'm guessing this is not a Canon DSLR.    It's been a while since I've used a Canon video camera, but if I remember right, some cameras shoot at 24 fps, but record it as 30 (29.97) so it can be shown on a regular tv. This is especially true of older cameras when few devices could handle true 24p.  It does this by duplicating 6 of the frames, which I think is called 3:2 pulldown.   If this is what's going on, it's possible convert it.  If I remember right, I used to do this while capturing the footage.  Vegas does have a few options for handling things like this. For example, I believe 'NTSC DV 24p' is for 24p recorded as 60i.
    In vegas, search the help for pulldown.
  • NullUnit
    NullUnit Website User Posts: 791 Just Starting Out
    I'm guessing this is not a Canon DSLR.    It's been a while since I've used a Canon video camera, but if I remember right, some cameras shoot at 24 fps, but record it as 30 (29.97) so it can be shown on a regular tv. This is especially true of older cameras when few devices could handle true 24p.  It does this by duplicating 6 of the frames, which I think is called 3:2 pulldown.   If this is what's going on, it's possible convert it.  If I remember right, I used to do this while capturing the footage.  Vegas does have a few options for handling things like this. For example, I believe 'NTSC DV 24p' is for 24p recorded as 60i.
    In vegas, search the help for pulldown.


    Thanks for the reply! The thing I was wondering though is, in the overall properties settings, do you think I should set the frame rate to 24p or leave it at 60i which is the way that Vegas sees the footage.
    I ask because usually I shoot 30p and I have a cam that shoots 30p in a 60i wrapper. I usually put the over-all properties setting at 30p even though Vegas sees it as 60i. Then I render as 30p. I always get good results doing it this way, but I'm not sure if it would work for 24p in a 60i wrapper. 

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 19,784 Ambassador
    Oddly enough, I have a Canon DSLR and a Canon XF 305, and I don't think I've ever shot 24p with either cam!.
    I'm surprised Vegas isn't seeing the 24p as 24p, since it cheerfully sees Panasonic DVX/HVX/HMC 24p footage as 24p, even with the 60i wrapper.
    Probably quicker at this point to just render out a test. Change the footage properties to 24p, render out, leave footage properties at 60i and render as 24p?
  • NullUnit
    NullUnit Website User Posts: 791 Just Starting Out
    edited July 2014
    Oddly enough, I have a Canon DSLR and a Canon XF 305, and I don't think I've ever shot 24p with either cam!.
    I'm surprised Vegas isn't seeing the 24p as 24p, since it cheerfully sees Panasonic DVX/HVX/HMC 24p footage as 24p, even with the 60i wrapper.
    Probably quicker at this point to just render out a test. Change the footage properties to 24p, render out, leave footage properties at 60i and render as 24p?


    Yeah, I have a T3i which vegas has no problem recognizing as 23.97, but the other Canon is an older vixia. Like rgbii said, it uses 2:3 pulldown to fake 24p. In the old days converting that to actual 24p was a pain in the butt, but I think current versions of vegas just "deals with it" now. Yeah, it sounds like I'll just need to render some tests and see what looks best. 

  • rgbii
    rgbii Website User Posts: 965 Just Starting Out
    The reason it's not seeing some 24p as 24p is because it's not 24p :)
    It's a holdover from camcorders that were played on consumer tv's that could only play 29.97 (commonly called 60i now).
    To give consumers a 24p option, the camera part was shooting at 24p, but the recorder part was recording at 29.97, and internally used the same process that was done to 24 fps films when put to vhs or DVD so they could play on tv's that could not actually play 24p, only 29.97, which was to duplicate 6 of the frames to bring it up to 29.97. 
    In reality, it's not as simple as just duplicating 6 of the frames since 29.97 is not really ~ 30 frames per second, but really 60 FIELDS per second, and the conversion was done as the field level, but it's still basically adding 6 frames.
    So, if the software see's it as 60i, it's probably 24p recorded at 60i. You'd need to convert it (strip out the added frames/fields) if you wanted to actually have true 24p.
  • rgbii
    rgbii Website User Posts: 965 Just Starting Out
    edited July 2014
    Oh, I meant to add, if your footage is set to 30 or 60 fps, and if you step a single frame at a time, and about every 4 frames or so, the image doesn't change, then it is 24 recorded at 60 and the occasional frame that doesn't change is one of the duplicates.  This is an easy way to confirm that it's 24 recorded at 60.
    If every frame is different, meaning you don't see duplicates as you step through one frame at a time, then it was probably not shot at 24p.
  • rgbii
    rgbii Website User Posts: 965 Just Starting Out
    Here's a wikipedia page describing the 3:2 pull down method used to convert film (24/23.976)  to video (29.97/30/60i).