Sucking Particles in (Vortex)?

Hello there,
I am using Hitfilm for some time now and experimented with different techniques. And now I working on a project where I use it.
So I am working on a space scene and I am currently working on a nebula, which turned out pretty good. The camera is moving from the inside of the nebula to the outside. My original plan was to render this section out and then bring it over to After Effects. When the camera reaches the end of the nebula it stops to move and a portal opens up and the nebula behind it gets sucked in (like a massive unrealistic black hole).
I planned to do this in Trapcode Form or Particular but it seems like I am running against a wall. As the particles get sucked in they should spin a bit like in a vortex if it this is possible (!). So the first problem I ran into was that neither Particular or Form seem to have the right settings for this animation. I only experimented a few minutes , I grant, but I couldn't get any progress at all. So I turned back to Hitfilm and remembered the atomic particles. I moved some test footage in and experimented with a few settings. The "Spherical Warp" was a good start (leaving out the spin) but it screws things up after a certain point.
Apparently, my animation seems to be too much for this kind of software and after some research I couldn't find any solution at all.
Do you guys have any ideas on how to achieve this effect? Sucking the particles in is the main problem, the Spin is just a gimmick so you can leave that out for now.
Thanks in advance,
DocsVisuals 
:)

Comments

  • CalebK
    CalebK Posts: 435
    That one stumps me... I remember when i first picked up a demo of hit film i ran into that effect... rather quickly.... Its killing me that i cannot find it.  Basically the effect made all the particles look like they whent into a vortex then i would add a warp... I believe i used shatter with key framing but i do not remember.
  • OrangePekoe
    OrangePekoe Posts: 478
    I don't know exactly how you want the effect to look, nor do I know how you made your nebula however here's two possible suggestions:
    Using Bulge and / or Twirl, play with the settings you can also make other scenes look as if they are getting sucked into the middle.
    If you created the nebula with the particle simulator you could have the particles move inwards giving you more control over the entire effect, sort of basing it off what I did at the beginning teleport effect in this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZw15MnIfPY
    With regards to the bulge and twirl - this shot is blown out but if you look carefully at the creating of the original fireball (after the firehands) I'm using the twirl / bulge effect and have the flames get sucked into the middle to create a fireball.  I think you're essentially wanting to do the same except rather than creating a ball of something it's a blackhole just eating everything up?  You could still have the nebula rendered out as a media player and then use the bulge / twirl effect to look as if it's getting sucked into the middle. 
    4-5s in shows the bulge / twirl
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gukzkTsangM
  • I don't know exactly how you want the effect to look, nor do I know how you made your nebula however here's two possible suggestions:
    [...]

    Hello,
    I created the nebula using still images, a bit like the Hitfilm nebula tutorial but with my own twists.
    I wanted to convert the resulting nebula into a particle scene. In AE Trapcode Form you can do that my using the Scene as an Colour map. "Atomic Particles" seem to be the Hitfilm equivalent to this effect. As I am writing this I don't have to time to check your suggestions out but I will have look at them tonight. Thanks.
     

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,574 Ambassador
    What makes this difficult it that you want the particles to go into a controlled vorrex, but, I believe both Form and Atomic transform via fractals, not physics.
    You might need to use multiple effects--use Form or Atomics to make your nebulae distort and break apart, then use Particular or a Hitfilm sim--either one can generate a portal of inward-spiraling particles via physics.
    Twirl and bulge could be useful. As OP said.
    Assuming you basically have a lot of 3D parallels layers, remember you can put different effects on different layers. You can use Atomic to break up the layer closest to camera, while bulging layer 2 in and twirling layer 3, and so on.
    Learn the control maps for Form and Atomic. They give you a lot of power.
  • What makes this difficult it that you want the particles to go into a controlled vorrex, but, I believe both Form and Atomic transform via fractals, not physics.
    You might need to use multiple effects--use Form or Atomics to make your nebulae distort and break apart, then use Particular or a Hitfilm sim--either one can generate a portal of inward-spiraling particles via physics.
    Twirl and bulge could be useful. As OP said.
    Assuming you basically have a lot of 3D parallels layers, remember you can put different effects on different layers. You can use Atomic to break up the layer closest to camera, while bulging layer 2 in and twirling layer 3, and so on.
    Learn the control maps for Form and Atomic. They give you a lot of power.

    Thanks,
    in this case I don't need to put effects on different layers because I am using the whole scene/composite shot as a source. Also I am moving so far out that the 3D Effect can be seen at the beginning but later it doesn't make a difference anymore.
    So: Composition with Nebula -> into another Composition where I want to animate the whole thing to this collapsing particle chaos.
    For Reference: I am using a nearly 7,6kx6,9k Image of the Rosette nebula

  • OrangePekoe
    OrangePekoe Posts: 478
    While I'm not a heavy user of atomic particles:  I'd suggest since you're using a still media image - use atomic particles to break up the nebula as suggested by Triem, make a composite shot of that and apply a mixture of Bulge and Twirl to spiral the particles inwards.  Though technically I guess you could get away with having all the effects done in one place in the order of:  atomic particles - bulge - twirl. 
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,574 Ambassador
    If I understand correctly you want to put the atomic on a composite of your collapsed 3D layers? Again, OP has good ideas for that. My ideas were based around multiple layers.
  • CalebK
    CalebK Posts: 435
    Send a PM to nullunit he is the atomic particles master and im sure he would love to have a new project to experiment with.
  • Daniloth
    Daniloth Posts: 52 Enthusiast
    It's kinda late, and I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but could you render the particles on a separate layer, but have them originating from a point and twirling/vortex out into a fountain/spray.  That would seem to be doable, and then you could reverse the rendered 'footage' of that and add composite it in with your primary footage plu.
    Anyway, like I said, if it sounds inane, I apologise.