@TheBenNorris RE Blender

cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

Sorry about the Blender thread.  I posted it here because residents experts appear to be telling me that I can't get 3D models in to Hitfilm without first running them through Blender. 

Which may raise the question..... why is that?    

If it's true that 3D models need to be "washed" before use in Hitfilm,  shouldn't Hitfilm be able to wash the models??   

If Hitfilm has decided to make it's 3D model abilities dependent on Blender, then it seems Blender threads are therefore needed here, yes?  No?

If it is also true that there are many 3D models which can be used in Hitfilm without the need of such a washing procedure in another software, it sure would be helpful to have some idea what some of those models might be.   In another thread I suggested we might begin building a library of such Hitfilm friendly models, but that idea was immediately shot down by resident experts.

 

 

Comments

  • TheBenNorrisTheBenNorris Staff Administrator, Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,577 Staff

    @cluelessnube I'm not sure where you're getting the information from that you can't import 3d models to HitFilm unless they've gone through Blender, as that shouldn't be true. I'm not overly familiar with the 3d pipeline, but if a format is supported then it should import nicely. If the format is not supported, then at that point you probably need to get into a 3d modelling program to export a suitable format, since HitFilm is not a modelling program.

    I closed your other post as it was not a problem anyone had mentioned, it was not a question to which people could respond, and it had no context to anything HitFilm related. If you want to make a discussion explicitly regarding 3d workflow then you can, although I believe you have done so already.

  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

    @TheBenNorris -  Ok, no problem.   Yes, agreed, that post was only relevant to Mac users trying to use Blender for work in Hitfilm.   Perhaps I'm the only such person.   No worries, I was just explaining, not complaining.  

    Yes, sorry to be clogging the forum with 3D model threads.  I'm getting sick of the subject too so hopefully the end is in sight.  

  • Stargazer54Stargazer54 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,735 Ambassador

    @cluelessnube There is no need to "wash" models through Blender.  HF supports multiple formats - obj, fbx, lwo, 3ds.  I use Lightwave so I can load in lwo with no issue.  However, sometimes people get free or cheap models off the internet that have geometry errors that need to be fixed in a 3D program such as Lightwave or Blender.  Since Blender is free that seems to be the choice for many.   But if you have a good model to begin with you don't need to run it through Blender first.

     

  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out
    edited June 26

    @Stargazer54 - thanks for your input.   

    Yes, if a model isn't broken then it doesn't need to be fixed, that makes sense.  Problem is though, there appears to be no way to tell what models are good or bad.   And most appear to be bad.  If you know of a source of consistently reliable models I'll hope you'll share that with us.

    For what it may be worth, my consistent experience over the last 3 years or so in multiple 3D apps such as Cheetah, Daz, Mixamo and yes Hitfilm, is that the transfer of 3D models from one place to another is routinely problematic, that is, failing more often than working.   That's why you've not read me blaming Hitfilm, because I can see from my own experience that it's a wider issue than any one software.

    As example of a typical experience, I just ran over to a 3D model site, grabbed a FBX model, imported it in to Hitfilm.  Doesn't work.   Ok, so now I know how to wash in Blender, which I have to agree really isn't a big deal.   But, it's a waste of time, as the model still doesn't work in Hitfilm.   So if I wanted to work with a 3D model in Hitfilm it appears I need to randomly try about 100 models until I found one that works.

    What the 3D industry doesn't get is that so long as hobbyists such as myself are consistently having such experiences the 3D industry will remain a tiny fraction of what it could otherwise be.   

     

     

  • TheBenNorrisTheBenNorris Staff Administrator, Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,577 Staff

    @cluelessnube "there is no such thing as a free lunch". You probably have to expect many free models to not be of the highest quality, as after all, they are free. I imagine many paid models would typically be well crafted, following professional workflows and such.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,331 Ambassador
    edited June 26

    If you want "consistently reliable" models, then go to Turbosquid and filter models by "CheckMate."

    Be prepared to pay for those models. 

    Turbosquid is the only repository that does technical testing and you ain't gonna find that for free models. 

    https://www.turbosquid.com/CheckMate

    Many of your complaints about the "industry" are based on faulty logic. In this case 3D models aren't just uploaded to sites by working pros - on the contrary, most of their stuff is work for hire for a specific project which is copywritten. Putting it another way ILM built movie quality Star Wars models are not available online. The Star Wars models you find online are fan-built by creators of varied skill sets. Some are quite good, some are terrible. But no repository can or will "test" all those fan-made models for quality. Doing so would cost money, which would, of course, cost the hosting site money, which no one is going to do for a free model. And a 3D model is several orders of complexity above an ASCII table. 

    It's a bit like if you asked FXHOME to review every video ever made by the 5 million+ userbase. The 20-ish FXHOME staff (and two moderators) aren't going to do that.

    In another thread you gave a hypothetical about how no one would post in a forum if it took several steps across different programs to do so. Phil, that's just silly! ASCII is a very well-defined spec that happened to have plenty of headroom built it. Unless we create a new phonetic alphabet with more than 256 characters all alphabetical languages will fit nicely into the ASCII spec forever, with no changes needed. Of course the ASCII spec is built into all operating systems, so serving up some text is super-basic. 3D modeling on the other hand IS, despite your complaints, a mature industry. However, 3D has to deal with an expanding technical base. OBJ files, for example, were created in the 1980's. We're talking about a file format created to deal with things like "The Last Starfighter," which used a particular render shader and some bitmaps for textures. Now we have 3D programs that can generate procedural textures (yes, every program goes about this a different way. Proprietary crap is part of most businesses), and use newer, more advanced render/shading models. The OBJ format just can't handle that newer data, at all. The OBJ spec can't really be changed for fear of "breaking" older files, so what's the solution? Attempts at interchange formats like ABC and FBX, which have been kept as "open" standards instead of finalized standards. FBX and ABC are imperfect, but have to deal with the custom, proprietary formats generated by blender, Maya, 3DSMax, Lightwave, etc, etc, etc. OBJ predates technologies like metaballs and NURBS, which have to be tesselated before an OBJ can be written. Even things like "is the Z-axis forward/backward or up/down?" changes between programs. No, there will never ever be a "unified" standard. No board is going to officially say "Z is forward/backwards," and, if they did, you'd merely serve to annoy the half of the users whose software orients the other way.

    By your argument I could claim that programming needs to catch up to become a unified industry, because, darn it, there shouldn't be COBOL and C++ and Assembly and Python and HTML, because there should only be one programming language to rule the all, and, while we're at it, there can only be one operating system. That programming language must be Java and the operating system must be BE/OS.

    It's a complex skill that one is going to have to put the time into to learn. Do or don't, but don't blame "the industry" for "pilot error."

  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

    Hi Triem, thanks for joining in.    You and me together are a good representative sample of what is being discussed.

    When nube hobbyists such as myself give up on 3D,  we wind up never buying any 3D products, which means there is less money available for developing cool new tools for experienced users such as yourself.  So when experienced 3D nerds defend the status quo they're actually shooting themselves in the foot.   Point being, like it or not, understand it or not, people like me and you are connected.   What I do or don't do has impact upon you.

    And, there are way more people like me than you.   But most of the folks like myself are invisible because they aren't obsessive typoholic blowharding crackpots like me, but sane sensible people, who fairly quickly grasp that 3D in it's current state is more bother than it's worth, and so they vanish.   Along with their money.  And that's money that never gets invested in making new tools for you.

    But few experienced 3D nerds understand any of this, because typically they are experienced at 3D technology, and not business, education, or software development.    Which 3D expert on any of these 3D forums has started, run and sold a business?  Which have university degrees in education?  Which have spent years coding their own software?   The answer is usually few to none, and so conversations about 3D are almost always steered away from such subjects and back towards what the 3D nerds know and are comfortable with, the status quo details.   

    Anyway, blah, blah, blah there is a practical middle ground which we could take action on here and now once we get done lecturing each other.   :-)  

    Out of the zillions of free 3D models, surely some of them work in Hitfilm.   So if we wished to, we could work together to develop a listing of such files.  When one of us comes across a 3D model that works, we could add it to the list.   The list would grow over time and when new nubes comes to this forum 2 years from now they could immediately jump in to the 3D realm using this list.   And if these coming nubes achieve 3D joy before becoming overwhelmed by frustration, they just might buy Hitfilm Pro so they can fully engage their new interest.   Everybody wins.

    So speaking on behalf of the nubes, to you as a representative of the nerds, here's what I see.

    I respect what you've accomplished and where I am able, welcome the opportunity to learn from you.   You don't respect what I've accomplished, and don't wish to learn from me, because  you don't yet have enough experience to understand that what I can bring to the table is relevant to your own interests.

    There is no crime here, and no offense is taken.   I hope that you won't take offense either, as that is not my intention.   

    Just sayin, it appears I'm about twice your age, and this is not my first trip through nerd land. Why, when I was young we had to walk 20 miles through the snow on a 14.4 modem to upload our digi-bits!!!   I was really hoping I could say that I've been doing all this nerd stuff since before you were born (my favorite geezer line!) but sadly it appears you're too old for me to get away with that.   DARN!!!  :-)   

    The main thing though, and don't forget this, the mods are insistent that we create as many 3d threads as possible, so man up and keep typing!  

     

  • TheBenNorrisTheBenNorris Staff Administrator, Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,577 Staff

    @cluelessnube I'm not sure where you got the idea to "create as many 3d threads as possible" but that is definitely not the case. Where possible you should keep your posts as succinct yet informative as possible. If content is immediately related to an existing and active post (or one you yourself started) then it is often best to attach the information there. Only when a comment is necroing an old or irrelevant post do we suggest starting a new thread (and typically this is due to support requests or spam bots).

  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

    @TheBenNorris - sorry, sorry, the "as many threads as possible" comment was a lame attempt at a joke.  I honestly wouldn't mind if you deleted all these 3D threads as I doubt they are going anywhere and I agree I'm getting carried away.    Again, sorry.  

     

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,331 Ambassador

    I'm 48 Phil. I'm also done. Put in the effort, or don't, I don't care anymore.

  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

    Put in the effort or don't.   That seems a concise summary of the message from much of the 3D industry to novice users. 

    Some users will put in the effort, and some won't.   And all those who don't, won't or can't are lost as customers to the 3D industry.   So why do some users not put in the effort?   The answer is that their motivation level has not been skillfully managed by the seller.    

    To see a 3D company who does skillfully manage their prospect's motivation levels, check out SketchUp.   

    https://www.sketchup.com/

    I downloaded and installed their software, watched one 5 minute video, and then was immediately doing fun 3D modeling.  Not expert modeling of course, but easily accessed modeling that motivated me to want to learn more.    Somebody at that company gets it.

     

     

  • GrayMotionGrayMotion Website User Posts: 1,368 Enthusiast
  • cluelessnubecluelessnube Website User Posts: 476 Just Starting Out

    Steve Jobs built the richest company in the world by embracing a state of chronic dissatisfaction. 

    And not by rationalizing a broken status quo, and trying to blame shift it's failures on to users.

     

     
  • alaska_vfx_filmeralaska_vfx_filmer Website User Posts: 450 Enthusiast

    I must admit that after I read Phill's 'geezer lines' about being twich Mikes age, I immediately scrolled down to see everyone's response, good joke, good comeback and exit speach. (If I clapping emoji's on my keyboard, I would use them here.)

  • TheBenNorrisTheBenNorris Staff Administrator, Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 1,577 Staff

    I'm gonna close this thread as I think it is getting a bit off topic.

This discussion has been closed.