Unable to solve data with mocha

JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
Hello everyone,
I will try to explain the title of my topic in english wich is not my native language.
I've a simple footage and would like to use mocha hitfilm to make a planar tracking.
After importing the footage, I place a plane with the bezier layer and a planar grid that match the floor.
The tracking seems to be ok (I think, cause I'm new in HitFilm).
mini_319011Capture1.jpg
When I want to solve the data, i just push the solve button with the auto option.
But around 24% of solving, this message appears :
996121Capture2.jpg
So I chose Pan Tilt Zoom and try again, and this message appears after around 84% of solving :
636198Capture3.jpg
I check that box and try again, and this time, the following message appears :
570312Capture4.jpg
But the other solvers need 2 layers because of the parallax change and I only have one layer.
I don't know what to do now but asking if you have a solution for this problem...
Here is a screenshot of the interface when I try to solve the datas. Surely I make a mistake, but don't know where...
If it can help, I am on a iMac with Marvericks running on it and 8 Go Ram.
Thank you :)

mini_861892Capture5.jpg

Comments

  • rgbiirgbii Website User Posts: 965 Just Starting Out
    I'm not an expert with Mocha, but I'm pretty sure to solve for the camera, it needs at least two different planes to track.  Maybe someone more familiar with it can give a better answer.
  • AxelWilkinsonAxelWilkinson Staff Administrator, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 5,243 Staff
    Was your camera locked off on a tripod when you were filming?
    Rgbii - mocha can solve a tripod shot with a single plane, because there will be no parallax, but if the camera isn't locked off, you will need two planes tracked to get the solve.
    What settings are you using in the Motion area of the Track tab?
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Thank you for your answers. :)
    I've seen in the tutorial from Axel that 2 planes were used, but in my case, I just have the floor (no walls or other things like that). That's why I used just 1 planar tracking the scene.
    I don't use a tripod, it was just me with the camera in my hands.
    I turned around one point (a sheet on the floor used for another test).
    Here are the settings of the tracking (I tried with and without perspective checked with the same result) :
    223084Capture6.jpg
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,307 Ambassador
    That's the problem. You were not on a tripod, so you need to track two planes. And they can't both be the floor. Now... Depending on the motion of the shot, you might be able to use Hitfilm's two point tracker to achieve your effect, but a non-tripod shot of a floor is one of those things Mocha isn't designed to solve.
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Ok, I understand for the tripod.
    My shot is exactly the oposit.
    With the 2 points tracking, would I be able to insert a 3d object into the scene ?
    That was the goal for this shot.
  • HarHar Website User Posts: 400 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2013
    Assuming you just want the 3D object to stay in generally one place relative to the floor, I'd think you might be able to use the point tracker, assign to a 3D Point layer, and then parent the 3D object to the Point?
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Hello Har,
    Yes, I just put an object on the floor for that scene.
    But if I would like to use an animated object walking on the floor, could it be possible with a 2 point tracking or will I need a planar tracking ?
  • HarHar Website User Posts: 400 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2013
    I would imagine that as long as the camera itself stayed aimed in at least roughly the same direction for the duration of the shot, the motion of the object would remain relative in its position to the floor as it moved/walked so it might work! Hard to tell of course without seeing the original clip in motion.
    I recently did something similar, where I had a moving generated Hitfilm 3D effect (missile smoke with a parented light flare) in a handheld, live clip - the idea was to simulate how a burning object re-entering the atmosphere up in the sky would look if caught by someone using a cheap handheld video camera (for a simulated news item  :) ). I wanted the object and the smoke trail behind it up in the sky to move along its own path, while still maintaining the shaky handheld look of the camera.
    In the live shot, there were some street lights up on poles over a parking lot. I used 2D tracking on one of these lamps up in the air, assigned that to a Point layer, and then I parented the composite shot containing the moving "burning space object" to this Point.
    By doing this, the object itself moved across the sky on its own path...but it also moved in relation to the camera's own shaky handheld motion in relation to everything else in the live shot, which gave it the realistic look I was after. 
    This of course isn't exactly the same thing you're doing, but it might work out similarly for you. Working with the 2D point tracking in Hitfilm is fairly fast and easy, so it might be worth just giving it a quick try and see if it does what you need!   :) 
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Thank you Har :)

    By chance we have Mocha planar tracking and I would be able to use it.
    But well, I think I'm stupid, cause it seems so easy to do... but I can't finalize anything.
    The scene is very simple.
    The floor with a sheet in the center, and that's it.
    The view turn around the sheet.
    I put a planar track with the x-spline tool and launch the tracking.
    Wow ! What a big stuff !!!
    Even so simple, that is not working for me !
    I was waiting for HitFilm coming on Mac, and now I get it, I'm not even able to do a simple planar tracking.
    I'm going to try again.
    Just a question : are there some rules for the shot wich is used for the tracking ?
    For those who would like to see the shot, here is the link to download it.
  • AxelWilkinsonAxelWilkinson Staff Administrator, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 5,243 Staff
    edited January 2014
    For that type of camera move you need to have at least two planes in order to solve it.  That is an example of a shot which I don't think you can't solve with Mocha.  As with any tool, mocha isn't going to be the best solution for every situation, and this is one of those. Add a bit of wall into that shot, or put a block on the floor so you have something at a different height, and you could solve it fine, but as it is, you will probably need a traditional point-based 3D tracker to solve that.
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Ok.
    I will look to have at least 2 planes in my other shots.
    Thank you all for your answers :)
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,307 Ambassador
    Don't feel "stupid" for not being able to get a good mocha track the first time, or even for trying to track a shot that's not good for mocha tracking--Mocha is an odd, odd beast, and the first time I tried to track something in mocha I fought that sucker for days, until it kind of clicked.
    Mocha is a wonderful tool, but it's a bit of a pain to come to grips with--once you get it, you'll get it. :-)
    In the meantime, go thru the tutorials FX Home made:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPmzwa5rA_o&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8prB4yKhS8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUgC8AF2ZoY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWVcjN5Wg-I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
    And this long webinar from imagineer that covers a couple of things the FX Home tutorials don't.
    http://vimeo.com/66822632
  • mark_emark_e Website User Posts: 190 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2014
    This is a good one as well. it's for export to nuke but until that part it's the same as hitfilm and mocha + it deals with a shot that does not have immediately obvious plane data.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaCBRrrq1cI

    And just to show with a bit of effort anyone can do it :) Here's one I did with Mocha and hitfilm, just chucked in some 3d objects to check the track, got 99% resolve in mocha they hold on pretty well without jitter the slight wobble on the sci fi effect is actualy my poor motion pathing in hit film not the solve ;)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXDo-JxaJCc
  • mark_emark_e Website User Posts: 190 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2014
    Here's the original clip you posted solved in blender and camera exported to hitfilm where I did the comp.  You can still solve that type of clip just not what mocha is good at.  blender is free but bit of a learning curve as I have just found out ;)  + that shot you posted had pretty much every camera move, pretty sure you zoomed it as well + lighting changes, looked like aperture closed down as well, someone casting a shadow and a fair bit of motion blur on the fast moves and I had to guess your focal length and sensor size but apart from that it was not too hard!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUa5TTLYc-Y
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,307 Ambassador
    Personally, I approve of a White Star on a tile floor.
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    That looks like a personal transport White Star variant, rather than a proper White Star.
    Either way, I also approve of it being on that tiled floor.
    I need to bite the bullet and check out Blender's camera tracker, I've not had a chance to try it out yet.
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    Thank you very very much to you all helping me !
    I was letting down a bit but I will try again with another and easier shot (just panning or rotating or zooming, but not all at the same time...) Even if it's looking possible with that one I tried (as you show me mark_e, and for that I don't like you !!! (joke inside ^^))
    I think I forget I'm new in this kind of stuf.
    I know Blender wich is a wonderfull soft, and I have to try tracking and exporting with it.
    There are some tutorials on youtbe or vimeo.
    I've also seen some tutorials from Axel Wilkinson and so this one with the planar tracking. It seems so easy to me that I could not expect I'will not achieve my tracking.
    I have to get some training again and again and hope coming back with a good tracking.
    Thanks again. :)
  • mark_emark_e Website User Posts: 190 Just Starting Out
    It takes a while to learn what's good to track and what is not keep at it :) don't forget mocha likes lots of texture and contrast so if you just put it on a plain wall you'll get a bad track. If you get stuck trying to solve a multi plane track with mocha just post it and I'll have a go see if I can figure it out to get you going. I'm still learning as well I'm a bit addicted to trying to solve different scenes at the moment :)
  • JRVJRV Website User Posts: 22
    I will keep in mind your advices and try to make a good tracking.
    I really like that because I like to insert some 3d objects as you did in my shot.
    I will try with other shot more simple for now.
    As you told, it's almost an addiction, even if it's a little bit hard for me at the moment ^^
  • MarcDracoMarcDraco Website User Posts: 37
    Might be worth pointing out that is not a planar track, but rather a point-based track and solve. This is where other trackers blow Mocha; Mocha excels where the footage is completely the opposite (noisy, blurry etc.).

    I've found that blender (which now has a planar tracker too) can be as much of a pain in the butt as Mocha if the conditions are not ideal. Pinning a floor plane, for instance, is easy in some shots and a complete cluster flip in others. Blender seems to work better when there's a lot of camera movement and plenty of parallax shifting.
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