Hitfilm really slow and jumpy, even doesn't respond...

gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
edited January 2014 in Post-production techniques
Hi,
This is my first post on this forum, mainly because I have not much time to work with hitfilm since I bought it.
I am Gérard, and live in Belgium. Making movies is not my only hobby. I do also model trains, metal turning and milling, electronics...
Recently I wanted to make a movie out of clips I shot last year, and have some hard time using hitfilm 2 ultimate.
When I started using hitfilm, the on screen rendering was very jumpy when some effect were applied to the composit shot. I surch on forums, and finally decided to replace my build in grafic card by a GEFORCE GTX660 with 2GB DDR5 onboard memory.
It worked a bit better, but not as good as I expected.
I started my current project that uses some effects (shatter, 3D extraction...) in a composite shot I want to use as an introduction to the movie. The movie is 30 minutes long and was rendered with Sony Vegas 10. As soon as I added this movie clip to the editor timeline, Hitfilm became very slow. I have recorded this situation and you can see it on youtube: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB3aGSYS9k 
Hitfilm stops for a while then comes back to live. Even though I have changed the priority to high. Most of the time pocessor are in idle mode. Even CamStudio uses more processing time than Hitfilm.
I do not know what to do anymore. Any idea would be welcome.
My Pc configuration is:
Windows 7 64 Bits
Hitfilm 2 Ultimate 64 Bits
Processor intel I7 8 cores
8 GB Memory ( 1GB is used as ramdrive for temp files)
1 SSD drive 120GB for the system (drive C:)
1 1TB drive for files
GEFORCE GFX660 with 2GB DDR5 onboard memory
Best regards
Gérard

Comments

  • AxelWilkinsonAxelWilkinson Staff Administrator, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 5,243 Staff
    The main thing that will affect your video performance is the format of the video.  What are the format specifics of the video you are working with?
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
    The imported clip is .m2ts from my sony camera, the format is AVC / H-264 in 1920 x 1080 25 fps.
  • AxelWilkinsonAxelWilkinson Staff Administrator, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 5,243 Staff
    That sounds like the most likely culprit to me.  Every format is going to have advantages and disadvantages, so what you need to do is determine which format slots into your requirements and priorities.  AVCHD footage is not designed for editing; it is supported by HitFilm, so it has an advantage in convenience, but it comes at the cost of performance and in some cases, quality.  Converting your footage to a proper editing format is slightly less convenient,  but significantly improves performance and quality retention of the footage.    I'd recommend experimenting with Quicktime footage using Avid's DNxHD codec, and see if you don't notice a marked improvement in performance.
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
    Thank you for your advice, but how can I convert the clip in this format ?
    Here is another question, nothing to do with this problem. Is there way to make a inner bevel effect on text ?
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
    I've downloaded Tipard M2TS converter. It works but give a poor quality. There are some vertical and horizontal lines in the converted clip.
    Is there a better converter around ?
  • __simon____simon__ Website User Posts: 113 Just Starting Out
    I've noticed a similar problem which I think is more than just AVCHD performance issues and I'm wondering if this is the same problem as the gneu has experienced. The youtube clip has been removed so I can't compare.
    For me HitFilm will seem to lock up for a few seconds after I add an effect or hit play/stop. I've used Process Explorer to monitor my system when this happens and HitFilm is using just under 25% CPU, which is a very suspicious number for a quad core CPU (I have an i7 but have disabled hyperthreading). Looks like a thread sits there doing a lot of something .... This only seems to happen on larger files, so far I've only tested two, both are 1920x1080 50p H.264
    1) 00:01:23:02 duration, 247.37MB, works fine (other than using lots of CPU/GPU just to playback, but that's the expected AVCHD issue)
    2) 00:18:21:06 duration, 3.30GB, HitFilm seems to lock up for a few seconds before/after doing anything related to this file. Once playback has started it's fine.
    I recently upgraded from HitFilm2Ultimate_x64_2.0.1618.47977 to HitFilm2Ultimate_x64_2.0.2217.43344 so I'm hoping it's an introduced bug. It is however possible that up until now I've only been using small files.
    gneu, have you tried AWPro http://hdcinematics.com/tools/AWProClient.html or EyeFrame http://eyeframeconverter.wordpress.com/
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,313 Ambassador
    Gneu, if you download the DNXHD codec, you can use Vegas to convert. DNxHD will come up as a codec oprion if rendering quicktimes from Vegas, and, maybe avi.
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
    Hi,
    just re-upload the video for you to check out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_OaLkVrntM
    Regards
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7

    I have downloaded the DNxHD codec, and try to convert with Sony Vegas 10. It does not work. May be because it is version 10.
    I have tried Tipard M2TS converter, That one work but I need to set the bit rate at least at 120000KB otherwise there are horizontal and vertical lines is the clip. 120000Kb make huge files (500MB for 30seconds). This means it will be difficult to do the editing in Hitfilm. I may keep on editing with Vegas 10 and do the effects in hitfilm. That way I need to convert a small amout of files.
    Regards
     

  • __simon____simon__ Website User Posts: 113 Just Starting Out
    That does seem to be a different problem to what I'm experiencing. I wish you the best of luck for trying to solve your issue.
  • __simon____simon__ Website User Posts: 113 Just Starting Out
    On second thoughts maybe it is the same issue, I notice you have a lot media items and composites, see my post http://community.hitfilm.com/index.php?/topic/4616-hitfilm-performace-issue-reads-whole-file/#entry37258 for more details, but if HitFilm is reading each of your files once or more then maybe that would make it unresponsive long enough for the "not responding" popup to occur.
  • gneugneu Website User Posts: 7
    I do not know what Hitfilm was doing because i do not have any decent monitoring software yet.
    What i did find strange is that even though I invest quiet a big amount of money to have a 64 bit system running on a I7 with 8 threads processor and 8GB memory, Hitfilm was doing things that makes it unfreindly to use, with about half of the available memory and very little processor load. I would understand this if the processor cores  were all close to 100% or if the memeory was almost full. I even replace the onboard graphic card by a GTX660 with 2GB onboard, and it didn't make a great improvment. Big money for little gain in performance.
    Converting the M2TS to DNxHD seems to be more responsive, but I need to convert at least at 120000KB/S to have a decent quality. Thise makes huge files (500MB / 30sec of clip). I can't work with hitfilm only as I was expecting. I will have to keep on editing in vegas and do the effects in Hitfilm.
    I did check eyeframe converter. It seems quiet ok, except the file size for good quality. I also noticed that it can make proxy files with less quality. I wonder if Hitfilm can use this low quality feature to work on the effect an render the final movie with the high quality clip ?
    Regards
  • mark_emark_e Website User Posts: 190 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2014
    120000KB/S to have a decent quality. Thise makes huge files (500MB / 30sec of clip). I can't work with hitfilm only as I was expecting. I will have to keep on editing in vegas and do the effects in Hitfilm.


    That's what I do, I treat hitfilm like you would after effects, could you edit a whole movie in after effects only, probably, but it might not be the best experience.
    My workflow now I've done a couple of end to end projects (amateur admittedly!) has ended up like this if I'm trying to do something nicely.
    Initial rough edit vegas pro you can just chuck pretty much any type of footage into vegas and it will have a go at it that's why I like it.
    Clean up, de-noise, balance colors, levels, stabilize, de interlace if required, tidy up anything etc. vegas pro render out 32bit to DNxHD  185 10bit save that project as my clean up one create new project based of the DNxHD files in vegas, leave in 8 bit until render time.
    Look at any scenes that I want to do something in hit film with open in hit film directly not via vegas, I have a folder for each scene with just that hitfilm file in it for reasons explained later.
    Work in hitfilm 8 bit motion blur off etc. do whatever I'm doing save the final hitfilm file as 16bit float motion blur on super sampling on objects up etc.
    Use vegas to render the final out, open vegas, browse to the folder where the hit film file is give vegas a sec to get the bridge going if there are loads of effects etc. it's unrealistic to think it's just going to pop up and that's why I keep one in each folder so you don't end up having vegas and hit film trying to create thumbnails for every clip.
    Drop it in the time line, it will be jerky if there are loads of composites as hitfilm still has to calculate every frame, if I want to do further work in vegas on it I'll go the media panel right click on create proxy and let vegas create a proxy file for it then work in preview until I'm ready to render out, work in 8bit switch to 32bit for the render, my source footage is 8bit but if you start applying any gradient work etc. I really notice it so it's worth doing it all in 32bit / 16bit in hitfilm.
    Render out to DNxHD or PNG image sequence from Vegas and effectively use hitfilm as a frame server.
    Load into main vegas project do all audio work and final edit there using the audio from the original files or other sources, check audio and video levels correct for target platform, render out from there.  Obviously a bit of back and forth but I found it quite pleasant to work like that, using the strengths of each application.
    If I'm doing any work in mocha or blender etc. I render out to PNG image sequence there's a bug in mocha with the latest DNxHD codec which means it comes up black but then just swap the original footage back when done :)
    re.file size, disk space is so cheap now I've stopped worrying about file size 1 terabyte £50 I just keep 2 bays free for my project work fill them up and swap them out for new ones when they full.  The limiting factor doing vfx is usually cpu/gpu rather than disk speed so I've not bothered with fancy raid arrays etc any more.
    Not sure if that helps or not bit it works for me :)  
    It would be nice if a lot of apps could start to use more cpu now as well as just gpu or at least give the user some options I've got so much capacity in the cpu side of things and so many apps just hand everything off to the gpu.  Neat video is the best app I've seen for this it will bench mark cpu+gpu, cpu only, gpu only and then combinations of cores and GPU to get the best balance or you can just say where you want the load to go.  Would be nice to see more of that.
     

     

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,313 Ambassador

    That's what I do, I treat hitfilm like you would after effects, could you edit a whole movie in after effects only, probably, but it might not be the best experience.
    My workflow now I've done a couple of end to end projects (amateur admittedly!) has ended up like this if I'm trying to do something nicely.
    Initial rough edit vegas pro you can just chuck pretty much any type of footage into vegas and it will have a go at it that's why I like it.
    Clean up, de-noise, balance colors, levels, stabilize, de interlace if required, tidy up anything etc. vegas pro render out 32bit to DNxHD  185 10bit save that project as my clean up one create new project based of the DNxHD files in vegas, leave in 8 bit until render time.
    Look at any scenes that I want to do something in hit film with open in hit film directly not via vegas, I have a folder for each scene with just that hitfilm file in it for reasons explained later.
    Work in hitfilm 8 bit motion blur off etc. do whatever I'm doing save the final hitfilm file as 16bit float motion blur on super sampling on objects up etc.
    Use vegas to render the final out, open vegas, browse to the folder where the hit film file is give vegas a sec to get the bridge going if there are loads of effects etc. it's unrealistic to think it's just going to pop up and that's why I keep one in each folder so you don't end up having vegas and hit film trying to create thumbnails for every clip.
    Drop it in the time line, it will be jerky if there are loads of composites as hitfilm still has to calculate every frame, if I want to do further work in vegas on it I'll go the media panel right click on create proxy and let vegas create a proxy file for it then work in preview until I'm ready to render out, work in 8bit switch to 32bit for the render, my source footage is 8bit but if you start applying any gradient work etc. I really notice it so it's worth doing it all in 32bit / 16bit in hitfilm.
    Render out to DNxHD or PNG image sequence from Vegas and effectively use hitfilm as a frame server.
    Load into main vegas project do all audio work and final edit there using the audio from the original files or other sources, check audio and video levels correct for target platform, render out from there.  Obviously a bit of back and forth but I found it quite pleasant to work like that, using the strengths of each application.
    If I'm doing any work in mocha or blender etc. I render out to PNG image sequence there's a bug in mocha with the latest DNxHD codec which means it comes up black but then just swap the original footage back when done :)
    re.file size, disk space is so cheap now I've stopped worrying about file size 1 terabyte £50 I just keep 2 bays free for my project work fill them up and swap them out for new ones when they full.  The limiting factor doing vfx is usually cpu/gpu rather than disk speed so I've not bothered with fancy raid arrays etc any more.
    Not sure if that helps or not bit it works for me :)  
    It would be nice if a lot of apps could start to use more cpu now as well as just gpu or at least give the user some options I've got so much capacity in the cpu side of things and so many apps just hand everything off to the gpu.  Neat video is the best app I've seen for this it will bench mark cpu+gpu, cpu only, gpu only and then combinations of cores and GPU to get the best balance or you can just say where you want the load to go.  Would be nice to see more of that.
     

     

    NEAT video also has the advantage the only Noise Reduction program for video that actually works well...

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