The Day of the Doctor

PhilWesson
PhilWesson Posts: 241 Enthusiast
I know that I'm not the only Doctor Who fan here, but I'm surprised that there hasn't been a post relating to this. 
So, in roughly a week's time, the 50th anniversary episode will be simulcast around the globe. I'll be in NYC watching it in 3D at one of the cinemas. Who else is excited?
Also, this was released quite recently as well, for those of us who wondered about John Hurt's character, and the connection between the new series and the last time we saw the Doctor.
http://youtu.be/-U3jrS-uhuo
«1

Comments

  • I'm exited. I'm travelling 15 miles to be able to watch it in the cinema. I hope the new doctors good.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    Honestly the thing that most excited me about Night/Day of the Doctor thus far is the twist reveal at the top of Night of the Doctor. Otherwise, looks like the story is filling in an expository gap in the exact way most fans already speculated. By the end of Day of the Doctor, I expect John Hurt in the black leathers (as Eccleston looking at his reflection and commenting on his ears five minutes into his first episode makes it very clear he"s freshly regenerated.)
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    It'll be interesting to find out if they've convinced Eccleston to come back for the regeneration.
    Night of the Doctor was pretty cool (though the sound quality is fricking awful), really nice touch to bring McGann back in this way. Although it did primarily make me want to see more McGann episodes...
    I find it interesting how popular Doctor Who is in the States, as I'm frequently horrendously embarassed by the production quality of the show. Sure, wobbly sets used to be part of its charm back in the day, but the VFX in particular in the reincarnated show are pretty woeful at times. In the context of American shows like Game of Thrones, and Battlestar Galactica back in the day etc I'm surprised US audiences can tolerate it.
  • PhilWesson
    PhilWesson Posts: 241 Enthusiast
    Simon, I'd probably agree with you, but in so many ways, it has so little to do with the VFX. I think it's because of it's vast difference from popular American television that people gravitate towards it. From what I can see, the Doctor (much like Sherlock) wins battles because of his intelligence, rather than physical strength. I think that the VFX are just an added bonus.
    On that note, what did everyone think of the Day of the Doctor?
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    I really enjoyed it. Production values, after my prior moan, were also considerably better than usual. The Gallifrey shots were very cool and the 3D painting concept was executed perfectly. Great cast, with the 3 Doctors each distinct while evidently being the same character - quite a clever thing to do with 3 separate actors.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    edited November 2013

    I find it interesting how popular Doctor Who is in the States, as I'm frequently horrendously embarassed by the production quality of the show. Sure, wobbly sets used to be part of its charm back in the day, but the VFX in particular in the reincarnated show are pretty woeful at times. In the context of American shows like Game of Thrones, and Battlestar Galactica back in the day etc I'm surprised US audiences can tolerate it.

    When I was growing up we would get Doctor Who on the public television station. Since they have a limited budget and often hold telethons to raise $$$, eventually, the station in the Milwaukee market could no longer carry Doctor Who but they ran reruns for years of what they had shown already. There are, I think, four or five Doctors I haven't seen though I am familiar with Tom Baker, Peter Davison and then Eccleston, Tennant (my personal fav) and now Smith. While at times they do some pretty cheesy stuff, like fat that comes to life and floats away, it's the stories that bring me back.
    Don't be too embarrased, the U.S. has had its fair share of "goofy" looking shows including Star Trek and BSG (original) or if you go further back- Flash Gordon & Buck Rogers. But what always keeps fans interested is the stories. I've said for years that sci-fi has some of the best and most creative writers of any genre and Dr. Who definately fits that bill. The way they brilliantly bring back new forms of old enemies and the way the show reinvents itself, IMHO, is what's kept it so interesting for so long.
    Day of the Doctor was awesome. I just wonder how the story will proceed now that the Doctor has essentially altered his own interaction with history. One of those "if I had a chance to do it over" moments with a nice twist for the Doctor. Did you catch the one little clip of Eccleston toward the end? I'd have to see it again but it looks like they may have just taken a snippet from an earlier episode. I was hoping they would incorporate him into the mix more. Contract problems (?) or is he in the Nimoy Zone- "I'm not Spock"?
    Has anyone heard about this?
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/showbiz/lost-doctor-who-episodes-recovered/index.html
    Is this true? They're going back to a senior Doctor? Hmmmmmm. Wonder if he'll be doing his own action sequences or is the action going to be carried by his companion(s) and fellow actors?
    http://www.doctorwho.com/new-doctor-announcement-peter-capaldi-is-the-12th-doctor/

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited November 2013
    I will talk more DotD later, but Eccleston was stock footage. Eccleston turned down the 50th. Eccleston doesn't like to "repeat himself" in a role. When he did Doctor Who, he knew from day one he would only do one series. His career, his choice.
    Also, Stormy, didn't you catch the new Doctor in DotD? They have two shots of Peter Capaldi as the Doctor. One close up on his eyes as he joins the Battle of Galifrey, and he's in the group shot at the end of the 13 Doctors looking up at Gallifrey!
    Older Doctors and action: Jon Pertwee, Doctor 3, was 50 when he stepped into the role. Of the classic Doctors, he is the one nicknamed "The Man of Action." Pertwee's Doctor did car chases, drove hovercraft, flew helicopters, and was a master of Venusian Aikido. Add into the mix John Hurt with a gun, or movies like "Red" or "The Expendables" with a bunch of actors in their 60's and 70's having gunfights, and you see why I find fan speculation about Capaldi being unable to do action scene both silly and insulting.
  • DanielMorgan
    DanielMorgan Posts: 324 Just Starting Out
    edited November 2013
    I'm with you as well Triem, Capaldi's in good shape, why can't he do the action sequences!?! Moffat himself described Capaldi's initial christmas scene as extremely energetic and physical. As for the Day of the Doctor, I was super impressed. I caught the 3d showing and boy, was it good. Pure entertainment, a solid plot and it featured stella performances from Tennant, Hurt and Smith. The time war sequences were excellent, a major step up in terms of production value. I even liked the cryptic Curator! Probably one of the best episodes of Doc Who I've ever seen! Pumped for the christmas episode!
    Eh side note, Triem, Capaldi isn't in the group shot at the end. They haven't actually even chosen his outfit yet, they were very careful on the framing of his little snippet. 
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    Triem23- I wasn't intending to offend. I just don't have the scope on Doctor Who as you do. I'm still going to watch because the stories are, for me, the driving force. And I shouldn't stereo type but I wasn't that impressed with The Expendables story wise and I didn't think the action scenes were the best those actors have done.
    Not being familiar with Peter Capaldi, no, I didn't know "who" he was when I saw him. I looked him up on IMDB and the only thing I've seen him in was WWZ. I see he was in Torchwood but I didn't get in on that spinoff.
    As to Eccleston- too bad he feels that way about his career. No shame in being known for a role. Quite the opposite, I should think. But Nimoy came around full circle- maybe by the time DW60 comes 'round, Eccleston will too.
    I need to watch DotD again. I usually need 2 viewings of things to soak 'em in proper.
  • DanielMorgan
    DanielMorgan Posts: 324 Just Starting Out
    Triem23- I wasn't intending to offend. I just don't have the scope on Doctor Who as you do. I'm still going to watch because the stories are, for me, the driving force. And I shouldn't stereo type but I wasn't that impressed with The Expendables story wise and I didn't think the action scenes were the best those actors have done.
    Not being familiar with Peter Capaldi, no, I didn't know "who" he was when I saw him. I looked him up on IMDB and the only thing I've seen him in was WWZ. I see he was in Torchwood but I didn't get in on that spinoff.
    As to Eccleston- too bad he feels that way about his career. No shame in being known for a role. Quite the opposite, I should think. But Nimoy came around full circle- maybe by the time DW60 comes 'round, Eccleston will too.
    I need to watch DotD again. I usually need 2 viewings of things to soak 'em in proper.


    I'm actually kinda happy he wasn't in the episode. Not that I don't like him, but I felt if they had thrown one more doc in, It would be too much. 

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited November 2013
    Triem23- I wasn't intending to offend. I just don't have the scope on Doctor Who as you do. I'm still going to watch because the stories are, for me, the driving force. And I shouldn't stereo type but I wasn't that impressed with The Expendables story wise and I didn't think the action scenes were the best those actors have done.
    Not being familiar with Peter Capaldi, no, I didn't know "who" he was when I saw him. I looked him up on IMDB and the only thing I've seen him in was WWZ. I see he was in Torchwood but I didn't get in on that spinoff.
    As to Eccleston- too bad he feels that way about his career. No shame in being known for a role. Quite the opposite, I should think. But Nimoy came around full circle- maybe by the time DW60 comes 'round, Eccleston will too.
    I need to watch DotD again. I usually need 2 viewings of things to soak 'em in proper.


    Responses to above posts
    Stormy--No actual offense taken (towards me)--I came back to this thread right after seeing several other articles on Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, and all of them had fan comments of "He's too old to play the Doctor, what about action sequences!" Actually, I need to learn to take a chill-pill, since anytime they recast the Doctor, the first thing the internet will explode with is all the "NOOOOOO!" comments--same goes for batman, I guess. ;-)
    Peter Capaldi was also in NuWho, Season 4 in "Fires of Pompeii." Moffat has stated in interviews that he's going to do some plotline about why Peter Capaldi appears in "Doctor Who" and "Torchwood." as differing characters (In my mind, a mistake--an actor can play more than one part, and no one felt the need to do some retcon explaining how Karan Gilliam's role in "Fires of Pompeii" was really Amy waiting around through all of space and time for Rory to come back to life again, again, and again....)
    Eccleston's not wanting to repeat a role--I can't fault him for that. I've done enough acting jobs to understand the desire to move on and explore a new character. And he's still known for his roles. However, I also agree with DanielMorgan that giving Eccleston a larger part might have cluttered up the story. Having watched "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" recently, well; it's really hard to juggle so many characters and do them justice in a limited span. "The Five Doctors" in particular is a bit disjointed juggling Doctors 1,2,3 and 5 (If you've not seen it, Doctor 4 spends the entire story trapped in a time vortex--Tom Baker's appearance is stock footage from the never-completed "Shada.") along with Tegan, Turlough, Susan, the Brig, Sarah-Jane, and cameos from Jamie, Zoe, Liz,Captain Yates, Romana and K9 among the companions with The Master, Rassilon, Daleks, Cybermen, Yetis, and Ralston Robots as antagonists; well, even at a 90 minute run time, that's so many Doctors, companions and creatures that too many of them get shortchanged.
    DanielMorgan: Hmmm... I tried counting during that last shot, and could have sworn I came up with 13--oh well. Great shot of Capaldi's eybrows!
    OK, what did I think of DotD?
    Plot-wise, no great shakes. Then major events of the plot were readily predictable based on information previously presented in the series and in it's trailer. I made a series of predictions about events in the episode, and, with the single exception of john Hurt not being IN Eccleston's costume before his regeneration, everything I called happened--and some of these predictions I made back DURING Eccleston's run.
    But STORY-wise, wow, what a ride! (Note: "Plot" is the basic event spine---usually to be described in a sentence or two. So the "Plot" of DotD is simply "The 9th Doctor has to decide whether or not to destroy Gallifrey to end the Time War. "Story" is all the cool stuff, character growth and side events around the plot. The Zygon stuff was a lot of fun, but it had little to actually do with the central question of "Will John Hurt press the Big, Red Button.")
    The Zygons are a great choice of antagonist--while they've not been seen since 1975, they've been name-checked a few times (for example, Zygon ships on in the coalition fleet at Stonehenge in "The Pandorica Opens"), and the new Zygon costumes kept all the defining traits of the 1975 look while being more detailed and creepier.
    Tons of "historical" (Classic Who) references to keep the old-time fans happy. (The "You've redecorated--I don't like it," gag goes back to "The Three Doctors.")
    It's always good to see Tom Baker.
    How neat was it to see, briefly, that lineup of 12 Doctors! A clever use of time travel, to feed the problem back to incarnation 1!
    But the greatest thing about DotD is how the STORY is, at heart, a character examination of the Doctor's ethics, morals and codes of conduct and honor. John Hurt's world weariness underscores the maniac energy of Tennant and Smith (and Eccleston), really driving home that these crazy, insane, hyperactive, horny incarnations of the Doctor are basically PTSD and frantically living life as energetically as possible because of the horror of what acts have been accomplished. DotD spells out very very clearly for both old and new viewers exactly Who the Doctor is, and why he is what he is--it's a strong moral tale about choice and consequence.
    What don't I like? Well, Steven Moffat as showrunner really really really doesn't like killing characters (Rory and Clara died so many times it's a joke--in the history of fiction, I think Jean Grey is the only character who has died more.). Moffat LOVES to hit the "timey-wimey, we changed history reset button (I mean, you'd think that the destruction of Galifrey and the Daleks at the climax of a war that crossed all of history would be on of those things that would make Tennant throw up his hands and sob "Fixed point in time, so, so, sorry," before snogging the hottest female character who isn't Martha.) And, once again, Moffat hates killing characters. I mean, I know the Daleks really really really hate and fear The Doctor, and would make him high-priority, but you'd think they'd take the three seconds to exterminate everyone in proximity before scattering to find the Doctor--first, because Daleks exterminate, and secondly, because, frankly, it's tactically smart--every Gallifreyan exterminated is another body not running around, getting in the way, and possibly helping the Doctor. But no way in hell is Moffat going to show Daleks murdering children. Hell, one could argue that the resolution of the "big red button" dilemma is Moffat's ULTIMATE "timey-wimey reset button" plot, except it's not....
    Anyway, digressions aside, it was a remarkably bloodless episode, considering it's a war story--some of this is due to time constraints... One might be forgiven for thinking that the Hurt Doctor (I like that better than War Doctor--for the pun on John Hurt's name, and because that incarnation is very much a hurting man.) had an life that went "Regenerate, debate Big, Red button, Regenerate." However, there's a lot more to his story--dialog in "Night of the Doctor" makes it very clear that McGann's Doctor is non-combatant in the Time War. Dialog in "Day of the Doctor" makes it very clear that The Doctor has been very much a combatant in the Time War. The Hurt Doctor obviously fought for years, if not centuries, across the Time Way before arriving at the Big Red Button. Again, we didn't get to see that because of time constraints, budget constraints,  Steven Moffat hating to kill characters, not actually needing to see the Hurt Doctor slaughtering Daleks by the thousands to get the central moral dilemma. But the trailer did play up the Time War aspect, making the episode look more action heavy than Tennant snogging Elizabeth I. ;-)
    What else didn't I like? Murray Gold's score. Not a fan of the man's music--it's loud, it's histrionic, it's overblown, and I steal from John Benthalisa's "Complete Doctor Who Reviews" on shadowlocked when I throw up my hands and mutter "Murray's Pompous Choir." That's just me. (Murray's takes on the theme started back and got worse with every revision until season 5, when he got up to ok).
    WHY THE DOCTOR DID NOT ACTUALLY CHANGE HIS PERSONAL TIMELINE:
    Above, it was asked how the story could progress with The Doctor "Changing his personal timeline," similar questions are floating around the 'net.
    Didn't happen--what we saw was what always happened and always will happen, because, my earlier sarcasm aside, the Time War IS a "fixed point" in history.
    The series has set this up years ago--Heck, there were references to Dalek ships escaping from a pocket dimension in the 2005 series finale, and references to Gallifrey, post-time war in "The End of Time."
    Additionally, near the end of "Day of the Doctor," the Hurt Doctor and the Tennant Doctor BOTH say "we won't remember this." due to the "time streams being out of synch." We can extrapolate this to all other Doctors. Only the Smith Doctor and Capaldi Doctor can be reasonably expected to remember the true events surrounding the end of the Time War. Because of this memory loss, it's reasonable to assume that the Hurt Doctor loses his memory after deciding to push the Big Red Button, but before NOT pushing the Big Red Button--as far as the Hurt Doctor remembers (after his memory fades due to his time stream being out of synch), he DID push the Big Red Button--as far as the Eccleston Doctor remembers, he DID press the Big Red Button (because his memory was also lost due to his timestream being out of synch), as far as the Tennant Doctor remembers, he DID press the Big Red Button.
    It's an interesting tragedy--the Doctor carries all this pain and guilt for 2-1/2 incarnations or so over doing something that he never ever actually did to begin with ("Fixed Point," remember?). Because of memory loss due to an unsynched timestream.
    Incidentally, this is a common feature in multi-Doctor crossovers. That the Doctor tends to lose the memories of his cross-self adventure. It also makes the "Gathering of the Twelve" shot at the end of DotD all the more special, as it's the only time in the Doctor's life this would happen--not just because of the aging/death of so many of the Doctor's actors, but because the laws of the Doctor Who universe really really don't want multiple Doctors to cross their own lives, and there are always consequences of the action.
    Anyway--DotD was a winner---looked great, illuminated the character of the Doctor, told an exciting story, wrapped up plot threads dangling since 2005, and gave the Doctor a new overall quest!
    Plus--Tom Baker!
    Also, The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot!

  • PhilWesson
    PhilWesson Posts: 241 Enthusiast
    Wow, I don't even know where to start with this. I need to go through and read it a few times.
    But yes, the Five(ish) Doctors was fantastic as well
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    Triem23- Quit blowing my mind! :))
     Okay- I remember seeing Capaldi in Fires of Pompei. I must have missed that in IMDB.
    I have to ask- does The Doctor have any control over his regeneration? When The Master was first revealed in the Tennent seasons, The Master said,"If The Doctor can become young and strong, then so can I"- and then he does. Do Time Lords have the ability to choose, to some degree, their overall appearance?
    This was my favorite season opening music. I like the driving beat, the hint of Didgeridoo droning underneath and the tutti flourish at the end:
    http://youtu.be/tEe5Q2un2ZU
    I like most of the music in the series. I catch myself humming themes all the time i.e. Martha Jones' Theme or (another favorite of mine from 'Utopia') the music when Martha discovers YANA has a watch like The Doctor's. I thought the music complimented the action quite well as it built up in intensity as the scene went on and the situation deteriorated.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    Stormy--The Doctor has always had trouble with his regenerations compared to other Time Lords. Heck, in "Destiny of the Daleks," Fourth Doctor companion Romana not only regenerates, she spends five minutes "trying on" different forms until she settles on one she likes!
    So OTHER Time Lords have some degree of control over the process, but not the Doctor.
    Why?
    Well, In the 1996 TV movie Paul McGann's Eighth Doctor explicitly states he is half-human: I like this concept for four reasons--1)So THAT'S why he hangs out with humans with all of time and space to choose from! 2) so THAT'S why the Doctor's regenerations are problematic! 3) so THAT'S why the rest of Gallifrey gives the Doctor grief no matter how many times he saves Gallifrey (I assume this half-human thing is unprecedented and unique)! 4) a little "hybrid vigour" is a simple way to get the Doctor to incarnation 14--heck, that human genetic code might mean the Doctor gets 24 regenerations that are erratic instead of 12 that are problematic.
    Unfortunately, Steven Moffat hates the idea of a half-human Doctor, and my hybrid vigor idea doesn't translate into a big, overblown timey-wimey story to end the Peter Capaldi era. Logical as it is, a lot of fans would consider it a huge cop-out if The Doctor got more regenerations "just coz." (of his half-human genetics.)
    For anyone who's already speculating on how they can continue the series after Capaldi: well, "The Five Doctors" established that the aTime Lords can grant a new cycle of regenerations... And here's the Doctor, seeking Gallifrey at the end of incarnation 12....
    There are other ways for a Time Lord to extend his life.... The version of The Master played by John Simms in the Tennant era is Master number 16! (The Master played by Roger Delgado in the Pertwee years is regeneration 12. After a couple of Tom Baker stories as a lich, The Master steals the body of Tremas of Traken (The Anthony Ainley Master). Followed by Eric Roberts, Derek Jacobi and John Sims.
    Mind blown?
  • Dewr
    Dewr Posts: 146 Enthusiast
    Well, I suspect that he will receive a new cycle of regenerations at Christmas.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    Well, we know Matt Smith is regenerating into Peter Capaldi this Xmas, but I doubt he'll get a whole new cycle of 12 regenrations. From a dramatic standpoint, Capaldi is the 13th and "last," and that's going to give him something to play off of. A knowledge that after this body "There's no more." Don't waste that by giving The Doctor a whole new set of live,yet.
    Besides--that's another reason to find Galifrey! ;-)
    Oh, certainly when Capaldi leave the show there will be some way of extending the Doctor's lives, but they won't establish how until that point.
    As I stated above, it will be overly complicated and timey-wimey. ;-) I still think they could just go with the half-human thing and hybrid vigor, but Moffat hates the half-human idea, and he's the show runner.
    Incidentally, Whovians, Netflix and Hulu Plus, both of which had little Doctor Who in September both now have Nu Who up to "The Snowmen," and they've added a lot of Classic Who--and they seem to be uploading more every day! Two days ago the only Season 17 story on Netflix and Hulu was "City of Death." Yesterday the rest of that season was added!
    Yeah--I've been going back and watch a lot of Big Tom. Because, well. Big Tom!
  • PhilWesson
    PhilWesson Posts: 241 Enthusiast
    Ok, who saw it, and what did you think?
    My thoughts are that it was the most dignified regeneration I've seen.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    It was too quick and sudden if you ask me. We are talking about Smith's departure, yes?
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    I haven't seen it yet (that's gonna be a Sunday watch), but I did get Day of the Doctor in 3D Blu-ray goodness for Xmas.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited December 2013
    Wow, after some really excellent storytelling with Name/Night/Day of the Doctor, Time of the Doctor didn't work for me at all.

    ***Spoilers Ahead! You might want to skip to the next post!***
    Phil, know you found it the "most dignified" regeneration scene, but I don't buy that since the regeneration itself started out with the Doctor frying Daleks like Havoc from X-Men with beams from his hands, then shooting energy from his head to blow up a Dalek mothership, then exploding with enough force to blow the snow off the ground clear to the horizon. After that massive dose of stupid the little Clara chat and fan-service cameo were... Well, I was busy being amused that Smith and Gillian were both bewigged.
    Time and the Rani is the clunker keeping me from declaring this "Worst Regeneration Story."
    Yeah, I also don't buy the Doctor's mid-episode ramble on this being his last body--seems he forgot his own 13th incarnation showed up, eyebrows a glower at the Battle of Gallifrey. Yet, both he and Clara seem to remember those events since, you know, they get referenced in Time of the Doctor.
    I just feel like Time of the Doctor failed to follow the inherent story-logic of the Classic Series, the Nu Series or of the last few episodes in particular. Especially when in a single televised story you simultaneously talk "Destiny Paradox" (the Silence creating the situations they tried to avoid) AND break an established temporal "Fixed Point." Moffat managed to disassemble his own myth with this last story... (Doctor doesn't die on Trenzalore, hence, no tomb, no time track, no ImpossibleGirl, no Clara, thus the entire second half of season 7 becomes a "never happened" thing?)
    All the Doctor's railing about breaking the rules comes off as the voice of Moffat screaming "this makes no sense and violates my own continuity, but it's MY show, and I'll do what I want!
  • Ever watch the original movie that started the series?   Interesting the movie was in color but the TV series was b/w.  Yeah, budget but still.
    I have always found it odd that people in the U.K. treat Doctor Who as if it were a horror show, having to hide behind couches and nightmares after watching an episode.  I have NEVER thought of Doctor Who as a horror show but I am actually American so that may have something to do with it.
    The show started off here broadcast by public television stations, when I first started watching it was after reading one of the books and then being told by a teacher of mine that there was a television show on friday nights.  My first doctor was Peter Davison.    I think I have watched every episode of all the series classic and current, including the original movie.
    I actually liked the Ronnie character, spelling?..    The companion version was hot.
    For myself I like the stories, some of the plots are a little dull and many characters are like the red shirts in original Star Trek, not going to turn out good for them but it is kind of obvious at least for me.
    I don't think there has ever been a Dr Who episode that I didn't figure out how it was going to end before the episode concluded but I let myself get into the story anyway.   I am not that much of a critic or second guess roles or writers, I just let it be how it ended up on screen.  The stupid, corny and some half assed attempts to make the story plot "work" are part of the endearing quality of Dr Who or haven't those of you that consider yourselves fans ever watched the 1970's and 80's classic series?     
    In America we use the word "series" different than the U.K. folks.   Here we call them seasons where 5th "series" would be 5th season and the entire scope of the show would be the entire series.  Dr Who had two series, Classic and Modern I guess in that scope. Doesn't really matter though we Americans don't think the same way you guys do on the other side of the pond. Never understood the the deal with Tea either other than you all can't do a whole lot with out it.  God forbid there is ever a shortage your entire way of life would collapse.  LOL.
    Cuppa all around.  

    Back to Dr Who.
    I personally praise the way Tenant's Doctor was treated in respect to his goodbye and Matt's Doctor introduction.  The 12th into the 13th doctor was sort of plain paper bag compared to that in my view.  I liked the story up to that part it was just he was there then it was someone else, pop there he is.
    Most of the Doctor's regenerations he lost his memory and how to fly the tardis, wasn't surprising to me at all there.  Doctor Who is a special thing here in the States.  I never watched the show for the effects, mainly the Doctor and his way of getting into and then out of trouble and the women on the show are hot.
    I think my favorite character on the new shows is Strax and his inability to determine male from femaie.
    The Doctor's harshness over the last few generations will be interesting how that continues in this next doctor.
    There was always suppose to be a 13th Doctor but you have to have really watched the classic series and been paying attention, it was mentioned a few times and hinted at various times but I don't have episodes to direct you to. It's something that was sort of hinted at and I took as will be interesting to see how they pull that off whenever that comes.  20+ years later here we are.  Not sure the current director / writers knew about that though.   I think it is more a commercial demand situation, we will just invent a new doctor as we need him sort of thing. 
    Time paradoxes in the new series don't have the same effect as the classic series. In the classic the Tardis starts to explode and fall apart.  In the new Series a couple lines of dialog or just ignoring it, takes care of it.
    If you want super hollywood style CGI..  Why are you watching Doctor Who?  
    You want best top of the line writers and best seller writing... again, it's Doctor Who.  Sure there have been really amazing writers even Douglas Adams for awhile back in the day but they still had to dumb down a bit due to it being Doctor Who.   If a movie came out that was all Hollywood perfect it wouldn't be Doctor Who.    The one hit wonder Doctor Who from the 1999 /2000 Movie wasn't really all that and that pissed me off to waste a generation on an actor that was only going to be the Doctor once.  That was a waste of space.. the movie was ok.
    My instant reaction to the end of this last episode was, when is the next seasion / series going to start, I want to see how this new doctor turns out.  When can I see the next epsiode was my instant knee jerk reaction.   I don't know, if you don't have that feeling to Doctor Who I can't really relate to you.
    It is the Doctor!   Come on.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    edited December 2013

    Triem23- "Moffat managed to disassemble his own myth with this last story... (Doctor doesn't die on Trenzalore, hence, no tomb, no time track, no ImpossibleGirl, no Clara, thus the entire second half of season 7 becomes a "never happened" thing?)"
    That's because the Doctor's real name is Bobby Ewing. I think Bob Newhart sent that memo out. ;) 
    *couple of old U.S. tv references for those wondering*
     

  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    Yeah, my dad keeps joking Capaldi should step out of the shower and Suzanne Plechette would be a great companion!
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
  • StrangeManatee
    StrangeManatee Posts: 2
    edited December 2013

    Well, I've owned Hitfilm 2 Ultimate for quite awhile now, and my first post on the forum has to be one of absolute nerd-rage.
    I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. ;)
     

    Ever watch the original movie that started the series?   Interesting the movie was in color but the TV series was b/w.  Yeah, budget but still.
    Um... are you talking about "Dr. Who and the Daleks?" The Peter Cushing movie that was in color and was released in 1965, two years after the series began. Made because of the popularity of the daleks it was just a butchered re-telling of the original dalek story. I say "butchered" because in the movie he was a human with the last name of "Who." To my knowledge there was no "orginal movie" that started the series.

     

    I have always found it odd that people in the U.K. treat Doctor Who as if it were a horror show, having to hide behind couches and nightmares after watching an episode.

    Autons brutally murdered people in horrible, bloody ways on-screen (as opposed to all the off-screen deaths in Rose.) In "Dragonfire" we see a man's face melt off (the scene was suppose to last longer but was cut just before his eyeball falls out because the show already came under fire several years earlier due to the aforementioned auton murders.) In "The Five Doctors" a cyberman (back when they weren't Borg rip-offs) was skewered by an assassin-bot and puked up silver blood. - I agree it wasn't a "horror" show. But the classic series could be downright horrific (which I miss.) Also, you have to consider the context... what was shocking to see on TV in the 60s and 70s isn't as shocking to younger people nowadays who have seen things like the Saw or Hostel franchises and play murderers who are advertised as "heroes" in games like Grand Theft Auto.
     

     

    I think I have watched every episode of all the series classic and current, including the original movie.

    Once? Where you on your iPad playing Candy Crush at the same time? :dry:
     

     

    I actually liked the Ronnie character, spelling?..    The companion version was hot.

    The Rani was never a companion, was she? "Romanna" was a time-lady companion. And, yes, both regenerations (Romanna I/Romanna II) were very attractive women. The second being Tom Baker's (the 4th Doctor) wife for a time.
     

     

    The stupid, corny and some half assed attempts to make the story plot "work" are part of the endearing quality of Dr Who or haven't those of you that consider yourselves fans ever watched the 1970's and 80's classic series?

    At times. Some stories were brilliant some fell short. Like any television series. And that last sentence is WAY more condescending than anything I have written in this rebuttal. Especially in a wall of text that is SO full of misinformed statements.
     

     

    In America we use the word "series" different than the U.K. folks.   Here we call them seasons where 5th "series" would be 5th season and the entire scope of the show would be the entire series.  Dr Who had two series, Classic and Modern I guess in that scope. Doesn't really matter though we Americans don't think the same way you guys do on the other side of the pond. Never understood the the deal with Tea either other than you all can't do a whole lot with out it.  God forbid there is ever a shortage your entire way of life would collapse.  LOL.
    Cuppa all around.

    As an American I would like to apologize. I know this was meant as a lighthearted joke, but coming directly after the condescending "consider yourselves fans" statement this comes off as a rather ignorant insult.
     

     

    There was always suppose to be a 13th Doctor but you have to have really watched the classic series and been paying attention, it was mentioned a few times and hinted at various times but I don't have episodes to direct you to. It's something that was sort of hinted at and I took as will be interesting to see how they pull that off whenever that comes.  20+ years later here we are.  Not sure the current director / writers knew about that though.   I think it is more a commercial demand situation, we will just invent a new doctor as we need him sort of thing.

    Yep, 1+12=13. Remember, it's 12 RE-generations. People seem to forget that. The orginal Doctor plus twelve. Matt Smith was technically the 13th, not the 11th and while I wasn't a huge fan of "Time of the Doctor" it did address some actual continuity (which shocked me a bit, right down to the Seal of Rassilon taken from The Master in "The Five Doctors.") McGann was 8, Hurt is now 9, Eccleston is now 10, Tennant is now 11 AND 12 (because of his same-face regeneration) and that makes Smith 13. (Oh, and the Valeyard was only a "possible" future incarnation and a silly concept in my opinion. But it was never a give-in that he would actually come to be. I always assumed after the 6th Doctor defeated him at the end of "Trial of a Time Lord" it was symbollic of him burying that darker side of him that we see in The Dream Lord. Thus the Valeyard never came to be. "Wibbly-wobbley" and all that.)
    -
    As for me, I was hoping that "Time of the Doctor" would be an end-of-time scenario and the series would re-boot with Capaldi as the NEW 1st Doctor. But as soon as I saw the Seal of Rassilon I knew the Time Lords were going to grant the Doctor another regeneration (it is what they offered The Master for his help in "The Five Doctors.") I miss the older, asexual Doctor. It made the show stand-out without the whole "forced romantic interest" sub-plots we keep getting with characters like Rose, Martha, and Amy. Other than her great attitude it's the reason Donna Noble is my favorite new-series companion... they didn't have any interest in jumping one another.
    I am truly, truly sorry if this (my first post) makes me seem like a [EXPLITIVE WITHHELD] but the major geek in me had to react when I saw a wall of text that just seemed... wrong. :-?
    I wish you nothing but good things and mean nothing personal. :D

  • Um... are you talking about "Dr. Who and the Daleks?" The Peter Cushing movie that was in color and was released in 1965, two years after the series began



    I thought the movie came out first then the television show.  The movie was a bastardized version then.

     

     

    I agree it wasn't a "horror" show. But the classic series could be downright horrific (which I miss.) Also, you have to consider the context... what was shocking to see on TV in the 60s and 70s isn't as shocking to younger people nowadays who have seen things like the Saw or Hostel franchises and play murderers who are advertised as "heroes" in games like Grand Theft Auto.

     


    I started watching in the early part of the 80's when I was 12 or 13 and NONE of these things had that kind of impact on me or anyone I ever talked to about the show.  The effects were so cheesy, I never even thought about the show like that until I started watching interviews by people in the U.K. and some past cast members and staff talk about being scared and hiding behind couches etc...    I don't know, the actual end result on the screen never scarred me but I did grow up in the 70's and 80's.

     

    Quote "I think I have watched every episode of all the series classic and current, including the original movie."
    Once? Where you on your iPad playing Candy Crush at the same time?

     


    That doesn't make sense in context of your quote.   I have watched as far as I know all the episodes of the classic and current series.  Many of them multiple times.   I don't have an iPad.

    I do believe the Rani was a companion, sort of, a couple of times.  There were at least two female actresses that played the role.  I preferred the second one.   There was Romana who had two regenerations while with the doctor. 
     

     

    but coming directly after the condescending "consider yourselves fans" statement this comes off as a rather ignorant insult.

     

    It sounded that bad huh?   I didn't mean to come across as insulting but I can't really control how others perceive my statements. 
    I have quite a few friends in the U.K. and they tend to agree with me to at least some extent with the Tea thing, but there are a few things they don't understand about us Americans either so it works out in the end.

    Then to my mind with what you were saying with the valeyard etc...  there should be 14 doctors then.  Will see what happens, I can't imagine the show having an actual ending with the Doctor not continuing on, my head just won't go there.
    Hey, it's awesome you posted.  I totally did not know about that movie being released two years after the show started.  In my memory the name of the Doctor was mentioned in it, wonder if that is the actual case if some day it will be revealed.  Though that Doctor was 100% human so I don't know, at least that is how I remember it.
    You do apologize way too much though, if anyone was an explicitive it was me, not you.  Sometimes we need outside input though just so you know, I am not a pc kind of person but the way I said what I wrote as I wrote it doesn't always translate in writing.
    I have no doubt others have more accuracy with the facts and events in Doctor Who than I, yourself included obviously. How I remember things happening in that universe maybe different than what actually transpired and I have no desire to watch every episode to fact check myself.  I just have the sense there was suppose to be another doctor beyond the traditional set of regenerations one is suppose to have.



     

  • Actually I think I wrote that part that got you EccentricDigital fired up was because of reading others in this thread tearing down on the Doctor and staff so it was a underhanded jab there so I meant to be a **** at that point.  Good catch.
    ;)
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,070 Ambassador
    edited January 2014
    One can jab at the Doctor or the production staff and still love the show. I stand by some of my negative comments on Moffat.I find Moffat's strengths to be strong characterization and big, epic situations. I find his weaknesses to be an aversion to killing off incidental characters and a tendency to use "ResetButton" endings.
    I can point to varied episodes to support my thesis, but, ultimately that's opinion.
    But, also remember that over Doctor Who's runs, there have been many showrunners and script editors who had varied opinions on the mood and themes of the show.
    Some fans think season 17 is too jokey under script editor Douglas Adams, some think season 18 too bleak under script editor Christopher "HAMILTON" Bidmead. Some fans prefer theGothic-horror inspired shows when Robert Holmes was executive producer, others prefer the fairy-tale approach of Steven Moffat.
    Moffat's style doesn't work as well as others for me. Under a Robert Holmes produced season, or under script editors Bidmead or Eric Saward, that scene in "Day of the Doctor" where the Daleks have rounded up those families only to let them go when "THE DOC-TOR IS DE-TECT-ED!" would have seen the Daleks very quickly exterminate those victims at-hand before searching for the Doctor, because Holmes, Bidmead and Saward were a bit more brutal in their storytelling.
    Different interpretations of the show from different crew. Different reactions to these different versions.
    We can disagree and debate in the forums here, but no need to go out of one's way to "be a ****" about it. ;-) I try to remain respectful here. :-)
    Now "Cheesy" special effects is a label handed to Classic Who (and Classic Trek) too much. When you're talking 30-40-50 years ago, the resources for visual effects we have didn't exist. Many of the lightweight building materials we have, varied plastics and moulding methods to shape them, didn't exist. Heck, the newer, thinner foam latex used in prosthetics didn't exist. In context, Doctor Who's effects work is state-of-the-art!
    The classic Time Tunnel of the Baker Years? Slit-scan! Someone hand painted those textures, arranged them on an animation table and hand photographed that, frame by frame!
    Same with the "Starfield" credits from 81-86. Rostrum animation... Syd Sutton airbrushing those glowy stars with their prismatic blurs and hand-animating the whole sequence.
    And they look great!
    You look at the 1981 season (season 18--Tom Baker's last), and suddenly the Doctor Who team is using computer controlled cameras to match the camera motions filming actors on greenscreen with a slave camera pointed at a model. In real time. That's advanced stuff!
    All respect to the effects guys from the old days.
    Lastly, idrankwhat, the Rani was never a Companion. The Rani is an evil Time Lord, best summed up as a female Master.
    Romana was the companion.
    Once, the Rani tried to PRETEND to be a Companion. That's "Time and the Rani," and my pick for worst regeneration episode, ever. ;-)
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    The Christmas day episode was really very disappointing. Rushed, muddled and packed full of interesting ideas that were never given enough screen time. it made little sense, featured a lot of dodgy old age make-up, and generally lacked in any kind of storytelling discipline.
    The actual regeneration to Capaldi also seemed like a mistake. I thought my recording had skipped at first, due to the odd choice of using editing to make the switch. Perhaps it seemed like a good idea in theory, but the way it was actually handled felt clumsy.
    Still very much looking forward to what Capaldi does with the role, but as Smith's final episode it was very underwhelming, and actually represented all the problem I have with modern Who.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    Simon- "I thought my recording had skipped at first, due to the odd choice of using editing to make the switch."
    Me too. I have satellite TV and I thought the signal was interrupted at first. I rewound and watched it a couple times and nope- no skip. The change was way too sudden- to a fault.