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  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    Yea but sensors going off or beeping and that kinda stuff can get added at the end if the shot doesn't make sense.  Just an inanimate object doesn't notice things.  Even having a alarm saying "proximity alert" is fine but then at least its something specific. 
    I just didn't use any names except for the hero ship's name just to distinguish things for any people working on this.
    The 2 minutes is like any tv show... if there is plot and a dialogue you'll cut more of the ships in space stuff I would assume you'd lengthen the shots to get a longer more "Metroid Prime" feel.  Where you don't have a talking hero.  You have someone move through a vibrant world or space.  Especially if you are custom doing  high res models for the ships.  you get that long shot of the starship and then a low close up that shows the fine detail, the amazing light, the name on the side, a logo and the weapons.  So the angle of the camera being low helps to give the audience sense that the ship is hostile without it ever being written.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Google Hangouts might also be a good way to communicate.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,511 Ambassador
    Gents and ladies, sounds like you're going to have fun. Unfortunately, I have a backlog of commercial work to finish.

    Couple of thoughts for workflow and storyboards.

    Often I rough out animations using spheres, cubes, cones, pyramids, whatever. If sending things back and forth to another animator it keeps file sizes way down, and kind of frees me to think about motion-only.

    For when I build motion paths in Hitfilm, I built a particle preset I have found useful:

    It's a point, speed 0,no velocity from emitter or forces, no motion blur and no rotation. Align to motion. 30 fps. Texture is a custom arrowhead with a letter "F" cut out. (it's easy to tell when an. F is flipped). Color is driven by a life gradient, default green-red. Alpha is driven by a liftime envelope, 100 to 0.Lifetime is set to end of comp shot. Attach to a moving point. I call it "Motion Checker" and saved as preset. It's like the flight combat videogames is the line over the map showing where you were. I can shift to a four-view, top, front, right, camera and quickly see how everything is moving in the scence quickly, and, if I shift a movement keyframe, I get updated results. The default dotted line doesn't show twist, you see. Same principle works in other software. Again, if transferring animation back and forth it keeps file sizes down. Just some thoughts.
  • Triem23
    Triem23 Posts: 20,511 Ambassador
    P.S., that moon is freakin sweet.
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Does google hangouts work with iphones or windows phones ?

    I feel that we could use some realtime brainstorming overall.
    As suggested before.
    If there's feedback regarding the script, the style, storyboard, models, compositiong. Anything. Lastly if we don't all agree 100% as a team on certain things, last call is mine in this project, yes/no? After this, I'll pass my crown to the next director/producer. ;)
    MJ your ideas and opinions are strong, and I may have to decline some of them. But you clearly have so much vision about this, I won't let things go so easily. Really appreciate the effort you're putting here. :)
    I'm working on a sheet about workflow, tools that we'll use and how to use them. Feedback is nice to have in this one too. After this is done, Storyboard done, script polished, and jobs applied, we are pretty much ready to start working on this for real!
    Communications; IRC-channel is there, this forum is there. If more people suggest different chat than IRC, we can change that. Until then IRC remains. :)
  • spydurhank
    spydurhank Posts: 3,193 Expert
    Right on, I'm working at my regular job today so I'll be m.i.a. 
    When I get home later... I'll try to do a short screen capture, breakdown of how I fix a Blender camera in HF2U. It's not that difficult.  :) 
    Masqutti, I was wondering... what bugs are you experiencing with Blender. I recently downloaded their latest 2.68 release and it's working fine. Let me know what you're running across.
  • Har
    Har Posts: 401 Enthusiast
    BTW, last night I finally got the Vue HyperVue network rendering up and running, leaching CPU cycles from my wife's computer and an older one of mine...dramatically reduced rendering time: a large spherical panoramic still that took something like 4+ hours to render using just my computer with an i7 3770 CPU, completed now in only about 20 minutes. So if anyone's considering Vue-ing some big-azz plates or animations, HyperVue may well be the way to go.  :) 
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Har that's great news! ;D
    I'm sold for the spherical sky"boxes"! Can you create such space-scenes also!? Stars but stardust-looking-galaxies and stuff???? :)
  • spydurhank
    spydurhank Posts: 3,193 Expert
    I already made a space dome, just need to make some galaxies and nebulea. The space dome is the lowest poly model that I've made. :)
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Script updated abit to awake imminent danger and suspense.
    If you have any ideas how to make SIP more sympathetic and empathetic right at start ( the brief moment before AGRO detects SIP), feel free to comment. Dodgin the astroid is a one thing that may awake this.
    The reason that is important, is to create emotional bond between audience and SIP, thus creating the suspense, action and a fear of SIP's doom most effective in this short short story. Basic things how to build up and keep the emotional continuity. That much of dramaturgy we have here. :) Nothing fancy..

    Next in list: the storyboard. I have some time to do that now.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Have Sip be doing something specific. Currently the design looks like a small passenger ship: perhaps change it to be a small mining vessel of some sort, and you open with it doing some work on an asteroid, rather than avoiding it? Chipping away, lasering it, collecting up samples, doing something small and with fine attention to detail, not bothering anybody else etc......which puts it in direct contrast with Agro, which could be revealed by blowing up an entire asteroid, or simply pushing the asteroids out of the way like an icebreaker ship.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Basically, Sip is tending to its garden, while Agro runs right through it wearing giant boots
  • RedHat
    RedHat Posts: 75
    edited July 2013
    Sip could be not fully functional or damaged in some way at the beginning, so as to produce empathy & sympathy.  A choice could be given for sip to return & abandoned mission, but sip declines going forward with the mission regardless of perils.  Some of these ideas could be represented on a read out in sip's control panel.
  • spydurhank
    spydurhank Posts: 3,193 Expert
    Okay, just made it home from work. I'm gonna get cleaned up, eat some grub and then I'll start on the screen capture breakdown on how to correct a Blender camera in HF2U, that I previously mentioned.  :) 
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    @RedHat damage to an inanimate object does not  produce sympathy or empathy well because with no backstory you have no connection.  When you drive by a wrecked car you may feel sympathy because you see how that could have been your car or its been you before or almost been you.  You have to go into even MORE detail on a model to effectively simulate damage and for this first time we need to keep this moving. This needs to be leaving preproduction next week because we have to stay on track to push this out. 
    Its very easy to find reasons to buy time and add more things while at the same time making no progress.  For me as a filmmaker I fight this when it comes to tech lust, but others fight with this  by way of concepts.  A 2 minute short should not take a month of preproduction.  I watch people do 1 minute FilmRiot challenges in 2 weeks that look phenomenal.  This is just saying 2 weeks to reasonably leave preproduction.  I just did a space scene mirroring what Axel did in a sphere tutorial that can work amazingly well.  Take a high res texture... wrap it in a sphere, give it some raised textures.  You can give it an atmosphere and all the stuff to make it look great.  Sometimes  you want to rush out and get things or use what you do not immediately have, when you may have something which will work equally well.  Im down for high res models being used for the spaceships and some of the astroids. 
    For any non surface views of the planet... or even the star
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJDHl8q_i7s
    Beautiful views of space backgrounds in Hitfilm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdv0v_of1tg
    Example of a great space scenes composited in Hitfilm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkuPvcrx-oQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxxPsglQtF8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEjCFkV6-TY

    Those are great videos that were done in Hitfilm.  Vue, Blender, Maya, 3dsMax... Great softwares but what can't be done reasonably well for this scene in Hitfilm?  Its not about having the biggest toolbelt and using every single tool.  Its about using the correct tools efficiently.  What may happen is we do the scene and space looks empty so we want to jump in and add things to the background like nebulas and closer stars and cool stuff.  Im down with using a NICE free pre made ship or going in on a paid model.  This could be SIP really easily if we wanted to go in on it.  If it was just my project Id just buy it but when its gonna get distributed out for free as a community file then its like well free is better ;).
  • spydurhank
    spydurhank Posts: 3,193 Expert
    Ugh, I'm uber exhausted from work so I'll post the screen capture in the morning or early afternoon. Sorry guys... I'm just sooooooooo tired right now. I-)  
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Ugh, I'm uber exhausted from work so I'll post the screen capture in the morning or early afternoon. Sorry guys... I'm just sooooooooo tired right now. I-)  

    Spydurhank, get some rest! ;)
    I PM'd you about the issue...

  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Gents and ladies, sounds like you're going to have fun. Unfortunately, I have a backlog of commercial work to finish. Couple of thoughts for workflow and storyboards. Often I rough out animations using spheres, cubes, cones, pyramids, whatever. If sending things back and forth to another animator it keeps file sizes way down, and kind of frees me to think about motion-only. For when I build motion paths in Hitfilm, I built a particle preset I have found useful: It's a point, speed 0,no velocity from emitter or forces, no motion blur and no rotation. Align to motion. 30 fps. Texture is a custom arrowhead with a letter "F" cut out. (it's easy to tell when an. F is flipped). Color is driven by a life gradient, default green-red. Alpha is driven by a liftime envelope, 100 to 0.Lifetime is set to end of comp shot. Attach to a moving point. I call it "Motion Checker" and saved as preset. It's like the flight combat videogames is the line over the map showing where you were. I can shift to a four-view, top, front, right, camera and quickly see how everything is moving in the scence quickly, and, if I shift a movement keyframe, I get updated results. The default dotted line doesn't show twist, you see. Same principle works in other software. Again, if transferring animation back and forth it keeps file sizes down. Just some thoughts.

    Thanks for the effort and tips!
    We try to use make this a habit, more projects to come so whenever you can attend, feel free! ^^

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Sip could be not fully functional or damaged in some way at the beginning, so as to produce empathy & sympathy.  A choice could be given for sip to return & abandoned mission, but sip declines going forward with the mission regardless of perils.  Some of these ideas could be represented on a read out in sip's control panel.


    Great idea! Minor damage of some sort - maybe something that is sparking or malfunctioning, making it evidently difficult for the ship to carry out its task - would work nicely. 

     

    @RedHat damage to an inanimate object does not  produce sympathy or empathy well because with no backstory you have no connection.  When you drive by a wrecked car you may feel sympathy because you see how that could have been your car or its been you before or almost been you.  


    I disagree. Driving by a wrecked car, there's no inherent backstory there - you make it up entirely in your head. The same would be the case here.
    The information presented to the viewer would be along these lines:
    - Small ship, working on an asteroid.
    - The ship is being quite detailed in its work.
    - The ship is damaged and clearly having difficulty carrying out its task.
    - The ship appears to be alone.
    There's no backstory, but there are questions. What happened to the ship to damage it? Where's everybody else? What is it doing? Why is it doing it? Why has nobody repaired it?
    It's that implicit world building that creates a backstory and empathy from the viewer, without needing to actually spell out what's going on.
    It would require thought in the ship and shot design, of course, like any other movie. But some damage could definitely add some drama.

  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    - Small ship, working on an asteroid.
    - The ship is being quite detailed in its work.
    - The ship is damaged and clearly having difficulty carrying out its task.
    - The ship appears to be alone.
     


    These are golden advices. Having difficult carrying out its task, it's marvelous!
    The ship appears to be alone, that's actually the subject of my script! :)

  • Ambiroa
    Ambiroa Posts: 180 Just Starting Out
    Awesome to see this project going well, can't wait to read what happened the coming week (as I am flying to Spain in a couple of hours). In case you like options on people doing grading, I am still open for that. Just simply send me a pm or something on your ideas/wishes of what color scheme you like. Any reference stills/movies you like me to see is more than welcome of course.
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    edited July 2013
    Cantblendthis assigned for a colorist that is! ;)
    I'll PM you when the time is to grade.
    Should be ok, we aren't finished in 1 week yet.
  • Ambiroa
    Ambiroa Posts: 180 Just Starting Out
    I am back Tuesday the 30th and then start checking all emails, messages, etc. Wish you all the best and chat you next week. Cheers! 
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    edited July 2013
    There we have a manual for this project! It explains workflow among many other things. You should read it. ;) Also, when bumbing into a trouble, you should check if there's info about that, if not, report, and Let's work things out & update the manual. I think it will be useful for the projects to come also!
    Please comment if you see already missing info or something actually wrong or a bad practice!
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CJ_JW_m0DwRqf01vhLpOkwAHqIw_79si7ymt8437JtE/edit?usp=sharing
    Still working on the storyboard. After that is finished and accepted, we should start working already!!!
  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    edited July 2013
    Also, it's about critical time to apply for some of the next jobs. Some already has done that.
    You can choose 1 to 2 jobs in the list. Also, there can be more than 1 working on 1 aspect. Tho, there can be only 1 editor.
    Please, if you wan't to participate, pick your "profession"! ;)
    Also, if you wan't to participate and don't know what to do, tell me that, and I'll find a job for you. 

    Modeler - Spydurhank
    Animator

    Particle artist

    Scenery artist - Har, could you do this? Spydurhank also has already done something?

    Compositor - compositor will have loads to do, might need 2 of them!!

    Colorist - Cantblendthis

    Editor

    SoundFX - Kyre Peters, can you help with this?

    Music - Kyre Peters...? ;)

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Looking good guys. Good luck! :) As mentioned, I'm more than happy to function as an ideas bouncing board, providing feedback on story, character, the edit, shot selection etc etc. Maybe in a future project I can then get more practically involved, which would be cool.
  • Har
    Har Posts: 401 Enthusiast
    Scenery artist - Har, could you do this? Spydurhank also has already done something?


    I'm still getting my head around all of this stuff, so I might not be the best choice for that position! I'd definitely be a better fit for any of the ambient-ish music/soundscaping if needed since that's really where my strengths are.
    (Though, I also don't wanna step on anyone else's toes who've already signed up for doing the music!...so I'll be glad to sit this one out if need be   :) )
    That said, if anyone working with Vue would like to work up the actual scenery at large enough size to be good for the spherical panoramas, they could send me the finished Vue project files and I could render them out to TIFF, PNG or whatever at a fairly reasonable speed since I now have the HyperVue network render farm set up.  :)

  • Also, it's about critical time to apply for some of the next jobs. Some already has done that.
    You can choose 1 to 2 jobs in the list. Also, there can be more than 1 working on 1 aspect. Tho, there can be only 1 editor.
    Please, if you wan't to participate, pick your "profession"! ;)
    Also, if you wan't to participate and don't know what to do, tell me that, and I'll find a job for you. 
     

    Modeler - Spydurhank
    Animator

    Particle artist

    Scenery artist - Har, could you do this? Spydurhank also has already done something?

    Compositor - compositor will have loads to do, might need 2 of them!!

    Colorist - Cantblendthis

    Editor

    SoundFX - Kyre Peters, can you help with this?

    Music - Kyre Peters...? ;)

    Let me know if I can help with anything on this project. Looks like its gunna be pretty cool ;)

  • Masqutti
    Masqutti Posts: 340
    Kahveh, want to do particlesimulations?