Stuttering audio/video when playing timeline

BluetheFoxBluetheFox Website User Posts: 25

Alot of people have this issue, so i'll cut to the chase. here's my specs:

Processor: Intel Core i7-4790k

Installed physical memory: 16.0gb

available physical memory: 11.9gb

64 bit

Comments

  • SarasotaSarasota Website User Posts: 272
    edited August 2016
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,227 Ambassador

    Blue, your question and answer are probably exactly the same as in this thread.

    http://hitfilm.com/forum/discussion/7018/hitfilm-3-express-playback-ridiculously-choppy-and-laggy#latest

    @Sarasota, I love the super-techie diagnosis, but dollars-to-donuts this is the typical h.264 lag.

  • SarasotaSarasota Website User Posts: 272
    edited August 2016
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,227 Ambassador

    Oh, I getcha. Right now time on my PC has been short, so I've been using that limited time to animate and edit rather than tune, but I bet there's a few more things I could do to squeeze a bit more from my system.

  • SarasotaSarasota Website User Posts: 272
    edited August 2016
  • BluetheFoxBluetheFox Website User Posts: 25
    edited January 2016

     Alright, here are my services that have the running status:

    • Asrock IO Monitor service
    • Bonjour service
    • cfosspeed system service
    • nvidia geforce experience service
    • LogmeInhamachi tunneling engine (side note: i uninstalled that, so why is it running!?)
    • Intel(r)rapid storage technology
    • intel(r) ME service
    • intel(r)PROset monitoring service
    • intel(r)dynamic application loader host interface service
    • lmiguardiansvc
    • intel(r) management and security application local management service
    • NVidia network service
    • nvidia streamer service
    • nvidia display driver service
    • PACE License services
    • Remotr Service
    • Stardock windowblinds
    • Wacom professional service
    • Action! service

    i doubt its a h.264 thing because this happens all the time regardless of if i recorded with fraps, Action!, obs, my actual camcorder, downloaded youtube video, etc.

  • FlyingBanana78FlyingBanana78 Website User Posts: 419 Enthusiast

    Does it stutter and jump when you do a ram preview as well?

  • BluetheFoxBluetheFox Website User Posts: 25
    edited January 2016

    whats a ram preview?

    EDIT: ram preview appears to be somthing thats onlym relevant for composite shots. My problem, is that this stutters even in the normal timeline, and makes it very hard to edit things with good timing. but i did that anyways and, during the short ram preview, it does not stutter. thats not useful to me though.

  • FlyingBanana78FlyingBanana78 Website User Posts: 419 Enthusiast

    Thats what I am talking about

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    Well OBS defaults to x264, your camera probably records to x264 and downloaded YouTube videos are x264 too. That leaves Action! and Fraps both of which use proprietary codecs or export to x264. Screen recording utilities are notorious for recording with a variable frame rate so even if HitFilm can import the raw propriety recordings the variable frame rate will still cause problems. If you're exporting recordings first then you're probably exporting to x264.

    Transcoding to an intermediate is probably a very good idea for you no matter what. Mpeg Streamclip or VirtualDub are probably your best bets. I know there's all kinds of good tutorials using VirtualDub with Fraps recordings and I bet there's similar ones for Action! What intermediate codec to use is going to depend on the specs of your source footage. Some codecs like DNxHD are locked to specific resolutions and frame rates.

    You also seem to have two GPU's, the integrated Intel and an Nvidia of some kind. You want to make sure the drivers are up to date for both GPU's and make sure HitFilm is using the Nvidia GPU

    On a side note it looks like you still have an active LogMeIn installation of some type. There's LogmeInhamachi which you noticed but you also have lmiguardiansvc running. the "lmi" in that is LogMeIn. 

  • BluetheFoxBluetheFox Website User Posts: 25
    edited January 2016

    my camera actually records in AVCHD; which i always convert to mp4 using handbrake's default "high profile" settings.

     

    as for making sure hitfilm uses the nvidia processor, i cant do that cause on my computer there isnt an option to add "run with graphics processor" to the context menu.

     

    also, converting to another format would prove too difficult because my clips arekindof all over the place. Thye kind of editing i do is pretty spontaneous and often not really planned out that much, so i need to be able to basically just slap clips together quickly without having to go, "ok i need to convert this this and this into a different format so i can use it for x y and z."

     

    if it helps to know; the stuttering completely goes away when i hide the video track so that just the audio is "visable"

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,945 Enthusiast

    @BluetheFox "...which i always convert to mp4 using handbrake's default "high profile" settings."

    Try enabling the "fast decode" setting in Handbrake when you transcode.

  • karmakarma Website User Posts: 165 Enthusiast

    Stardock Windowblinds is a memory and resource hog.  Get rid of it.

    You may also want to change the performance settings (search for 'performance' in the search bar (bottom left where the start button normally is) - the name of the window is performance options.  If you have a low powered computer and its not a video powerhouse, then choose to turn off EVERYTHING for max performance.

    Make sure your video card drivers are up to date.  If you have a Nvidia card (I see a lot of Nvidia services), some of those cards are not really up to the task and can stutter pretty bad.  If you have a vanilla intel video card, forget it (lol).  If you have an ATI video card, they can be problematic.

    Video and audio stuttering could be attributed to either audio/video driver problems or malware/viruses creating problems with your system.

    Video editing and compositing really requires not only a powerful system, but professional level hardware as well, such as a dedicated audio device, such as a presonus Audiobox or Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.  These do all the audio processing allowing the cpu and gpu to do more and is way more powerful and capable than the built in realtek or other audio chip on the motherboard.  The ASIO driver in these boxes are a million times better at audio playback - which will also allow the video and audio to record and playback smoother.

    Memory is important.  Make sure you have at least 4GB of fast ram and 8GB or more is preferred.

    Finally, yep, use proxies or some kind of pre-processing.  If the camera uses AVCHD, some codecs are notorious for not playing well with video editing/compositing software.

    Mike

  • Aladdin4dAladdin4d Moderator Website User, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,509 Enthusiast

    @BluetheFox The article I linked to also contains instructions on how to create a profile from scratch through the Nvidia control panel without using context menu options.

     AVCHD is just another x264 variant as is MP4 so when you're running it through HandBrake with the default high profile settings you probably aren't gaining much. NormanPCN's suggestion will help but you should also consider tweaking other settings to get better decode and editing performance. NormanPCN has been experimenting quite a bit in that area so if he has any other suggestions I'll leave that to him. If you still don't get decent performance then it's transcoding to an intermediate like DNxHD

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,227 Ambassador

    It should be noted that earlier in this post I linked to another post from a user having stuttering issues. That user is having issues simply because he's editing in mp4. x264/h.264 is a DELIVERY codec, intended to cram data into a tiny package solely for playback. x264/h.264 is NOT designed for editing and any NLE will experience slowdown when attempting to edit in h.264. Hitfilm is worse than many.

    I say this again because the original poster's camera is shooting AVCHD (which is h.264) and is transcoding to mp4 (again h.264). So the poster is transcoding from a bad editing codec to a bad editing codec. And the chances are the stuttering issue is as simple as editing in h.264.

    Best bet is to convert to ProRes (Mac) or DNxHD (Windows). Your file sizes will end up much larger, but editing will be buttery smooth.

    This video shows how to use the free software Mpeg Streamclip to convert mp4 to ProRes. The steps for DNxHD are the same, except you'd select the DNxHD codec instead of ProRes in the MOV export.

    The DNxHD codec can be downloaded here: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/en423319

    For more information on why h.264 is a terrible editing codec and why ProRes and DNxHD are better, read this: http://telestreamblog.telestream.net/2012/04/save-yourself-frustration-use-editing-formats-when-editing-2/

  • NormanPCNNormanPCN Website User Posts: 3,945 Enthusiast
    edited January 2016

    @Triem23 "x264/h.264 is a DELIVERY codec, intended to cram data into a tiny package solely for playback. x264/h.264 is NOT designed for editing and any NLE will experience slowdown"

    For that I have to disagree. True AVC/H.264 has features designed for low bitrate delivery, unlike DNxHD et al, but those features do not have to be used. AVC is a massive codec definition with lots of features. Problem is that most encodes from most devices are not setup for easiest decode performance. 99% of the time. From my direct experience. My GoPro AVC files can edit poorly in circumstances. Even in Vegas. My Canon 7D DSLR files edit without hiccup.

    Even with decode performance sapping features off, AVC will still require more compute performance to decode. Even its most basic features still "compress" more heavily than things like DNxHD et al. This includes AVC Intra.

    Hitfilm has a higher basic media decode/playback overhead than most others just going by forum posts I've read. My only comparison is with Vegas. Realistically even in that other editor users were probably at the hairy edge of working with their specific AVC files.

    For what it is worth, I can get AVC encodes to playback in Hitfilm at the same CPU utilization as DNxHD. It can be done, but most should just go with Cineform or DNxHD if they need to lower the playback overhead. I'm just the stubborn POS does not take no for an answer tries things out.

    Also, really the lowest overhead codec might just be mpeg-2 Long Gop. Can't speak directly to Hitfilm but Vegas uses that codec for it's internal smart proxies for good reason.

  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,227 Ambassador

    Norman--you are correct. Actually we're both correct. in general h.264 is a terrible editing codec, but, yes, one can twiddle around and experiment with setting to optimize the h.264 for editing. Actually, since you have those settings dialed in, you should do a short tutorial on that so when this issue comes up again (and it will--usually 2/3 times a week), we can send users to your setup!

    I haven't tried your particular settings, but I'm concerned about transcoding a low-bitrate file to a low-bitrate file through another compression pass. The DNxHD option is easier (read lazier) to set up, and happens to be the general recommendation of FxHome staff. Forgive my slight oversimplification. I didn't want to get into slight differences between mp4/AVCHD, since most of those are metadata issues. The core codec is still x264 for both formats, so "close enough" for quick forum answers. :-)

    Overall Vegas does handle mp4 and AVCHD better than Hitfilm--but as you've said, Hitfilm has a higher render overhead than Vegas. I suspect part of this is the OpenGL framework, and I suspect part of it is just that Hitfilm has so many more VFX and Animation options. I don't know how "brute-force" Hitfilm is when it hits the render stack, but I think it has to check, at least once, if certain things are happening, whether or not they are, which eats up some time.

  • SarasotaSarasota Website User Posts: 272
    edited August 2016
  • BluetheFoxBluetheFox Website User Posts: 25

    Yup, i have windows 10 alright. My computer came with windows 8.

     

    lets just assume that converting doesnt work, because:

    i have several folders each with about 50+ files in each one, so it would be very time consuming to convert every one of my video files to an edit friendly format. And yes, i would have to convert every one because i dont know what im going to be editing from one time to the next.

    I have tried to use proxies, but half of the time, they fail, because of some stupid "cannot push frame #" error.

     

     

    HOWEVER, I have tried some of the things suggested here, and although it still stutters from time to time, it seems to not stutter nearly as much as it was. So, thanks guys. :) I'll try to nail down what still stutters and if i still have problems i'll come back to this thread and tell you guys about it.

  • SarasotaSarasota Website User Posts: 272
    edited August 2016
  • Triem23Triem23 Moderator Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 18,227 Ambassador

    Nothing on the error. 

    For transcoding tons of clips set up batch jobs to run as you sleep. Or go to work/school. Let the machine do boring long tasks when you have to be elsewhere. 

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