Why the moon landings weren't faked

SimonKJones
SimonKJones ModeratorWebsite User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast

This is a really interesting (and entertaining) examination of why the moon landings can't possibly have been faked, based on a technical analysis of film, video and VFX technology at the time.
It gets a little political, but is well worth a watch. :)

Comments

  • Aculag
    Aculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out

    What we 'think' was available in VFX compared to what was possibly available, is a huge gap.
    How about what we know was available? The moon landing isn't some ancient mystery, it's something that happened, that people who are alive right now can talk about having witnessed. People (like the guy in the video) know what it would have taken to fake a moon landing in the 1960s. No one's making guesses.
    Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you, but this analysis is only "pointless" because it's a fact that we landed on the moon in 1969. People who claim otherwise are just wrong.
  • Aculag
    Aculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out
    In the case of objective fact, opinion doesn't hold much water, I'm sorry to say.
  • Thelurkerish
    Thelurkerish Website User Posts: 141
    I watched the video earlier and was very impressed with the style of the video, I really liked the line about how now we could fake the moon landings but seem to have lost the ability to the real thing.
    I wonder if the Russians had got to the moon first would the space race of continued on to mars ?
  • fredclips
    fredclips Website User Posts: 228
    I thought the guys on "The Big Bang Theory" proved the moon landing when they bounced a laser off the moon!
    ;)
  • Andrew
    Andrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013

    Wow, thanks for pointing out Opinion is wrong, i plain forgot ;)
    This comment is everything that is wrong with this place.
    Ignoring or questioning the moon landing, or even 'not knowing either way', additionally, is as asinine and silly as saying Obama wasn't born in America or any other number of outlandish conspiracy theories.. All have been proved and backed to be true, and even if they weren't- as with Obama and being American or the moon-landing and space travel- we've done more and gone further regardless of their truth. Not to get too political, but it's the same principle. Even if you want to refute the validity of Obama's nationalism, he still went on to be elected President of the U.S. by the majority of the electorate.
    Whether you entertain the ridiculous claim the moon landing was fake or not, you still can't refute the leaps and bounds and ambitions of space travel and technology the event spurned. And that's entertaining a wild and untrue statement, too. We've got a rover on Mars, people in outer space, and thousands of satellites in orbit that control and aid billions of people's lives and communication.
    These are big things at work that are very concretely real that started from small people with hardwork and grand ambitions. Why wouldn't the moon landing be just another one of these? Why must it have shadows of doubt cast across it?
    Also, though he looks nothing like him- everything about this guy in the video screams Dustin Hoffman to me, eerily. His tone, mannerisms, diction, cadences to his voice. That is crazy.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    Its all fake you guys... we are in The Matrix ;).
    Pointing out what is wrong with peoples actions is what's actually wrong with just the internet in general.
    A certain percentage of the population will always halfheartedly believe a conspiracy theory.
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Website User Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2013
    I very much enjoyed this technical analysis. I think it was very interesting to see the available technology at the time and how difficult it would really be to fake a moon landing in 1969. When I was younger, I looked into and even entertained the idea that the moon landing could have been faked, but eventually came back to reality ;)
    I can totally understand why people have claimed the moon landing was fake, and simply I would say it is do to ignorance of the facts. Not quite understanding photography/videography of the time. This was a very interesting video that sets the record straight, in a way. I too enjoyed the entire style of this particular video. Very well made all around.
    As for this post,

    Wow, thanks for pointing out Opinion is wrong, i plain forgot ;)
    I think I will play devil's advocate just briefly.
    What is a fact? For instance. If you look at a dictionary. Most people would say that the definitions in any given dictionary are "facts". However they are subject to change. Why is this? Because in reality a fact is simply a widely accepted opinion. A fact is simply what one person concluded to be true, that was "proven" to others, and then, over time, accepted by the general public. It is impossible to truly "prove" something without having a person experience what it is you are trying to prove. Anyone could lie about anything, and back it up with "facts" or "data" that they "fake". However, everyone experiences things like gravity, and therefore, to question it's existence is ridiculous. Not everyone experienced the moon landing, and without experiencing it for yourself, you must choose to either doubt it, or have some amount of "faith" in the people who achieved such an incredible feat.
    Of course this is just a matter of opinion. ;)
    Edit:
    As for this:

    Pointing out what is wrong with peoples actions is what's actually wrong with just the internet in general.
    I must disagree. If, for instance, I call blue, red, and continue doing so my entire life, it will create lots of communication issues for me. If I am never corrected, how am I to ever effectively describe a red or blue object? I think that correcting people who are wrong is a good thing, when done in the right way. There are some things that are unacceptable in society and if no one corrects you, how would you ever know? I think that correction of "wrong actions" is a necessary part of life, including correction on the internet.
    I have been corrected countless times on the internet by Andrew and his brother Ben, as well as others such as Simon, Aculag and Sollthar. I have grown and learned a lot due to these "corrections" in ways that I wouldn't have otherwise. Without them, I wouldn't have made some necessary changes that eventually made me a better person.
  • spydurhank
    spydurhank Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,956 Ambassador
    There's nothing wrong with questioning everything that you're told. :)
  • KahvehRobinett
    KahvehRobinett Website User Posts: 443
    Very engaging and interesting. If somebody found proof that it was faked(not that I think it is faked), I wonder what the reaction would be like.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Matthias Correcting can be useful but on the internet it just becomes a louder more aggressive non helpful exercise in futility. Everyone has differences of opinions on being corrected. I do think you should be able to present a case for what you believe in but I just dislike when people are over the top about it. A laid back "hey so you know....(corrected information)" is fine. People adding digs or other stuff seems to lessen the helpfulness (to me) and does not seem worth it. That's just my opinion though.
    I like the psychology behind the belief in conspiracy theories. There are some really crazy ones which floated around. One about the American government putting people into Red, white and blue camps was interesting and totally off the reservation. When people cannot explain things they try to fill in the blanks with whatever makes sense to them.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013

    Actually the biggest thing wrong with this place is self important people, who have seen more and done more (they think) than eveybody else and this makes evrybody elses opinion invalid
    I'd rather have thought-out, snarky prose that actually doubles as discussion then lazily-strung-together snot remarks like 'evryones got opinions'. But hey, I've always been in favor of having insightful, contemplative, intelligent and challenging debate then an exchange of URLs and YouTube/Twitter-like responses, so what do I know?
    But I am definitely self-important. Now if people would only actually discuss the professional, well-produced, well-presented content I post here and respond on the same level and effort to which I compose my thoughts in threads. It isn't there yet. But hey, maybe some day soon, right?
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    Yes it is clear that you have a strong preference to thought-out, snarky prose then lazily-strung-together snot remarks. Is there some middle ground that we can all take? That's a fair compromise right? A open dialogue always sounds more intelligent, contemplative, and insightful when there is no snarkiness to it. A more lenient tone towards the lazily-strung-together snot remarks coming from people would most likely cause a less defiant lazily-strung-together snot remarks. Also, if we can have the fight hype men stop adding lazily-strung-together snarky remarks to stoke the internet fires that would be great too.
    These forums could be a more tremendous resource if we as a community could come together. There is no need for us to police each other on pet peeves or rail on each other. Almost everyone on these forums are working on something and could be a valuable resource. Some people on here have tremendous technical skill when it comes to VFX, other people are great cinematographers or directors and finally some people who are great producers and could really help some of the terrific projects I've seen on here stand out and get real attention/money. There are plenty of talented people who spend their whole lives scraping by and plenty of untalented people who just had good connections who will never have to scrape by again.
    In the end we are all playing the same puzzle and if we worked with everyone here I think we could finally figure it out. In San Diego there is an Indie film community coalescing behind that type of idea and I think we should all should make that a community goal. Trust me, you would be kicking yourself if you found out that someone coulda helped you get a meeting with a studio that ends with a contract or a handshake deal. I've been an actor for 7 years now and I feel like all the pieces to this puzzle I've collected would really help anyone else but an actor. I still keep an old school rolodex for certain numbers because I think no good would come from having certain numbers in my phone.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013

    It is completely pointless analysis (Not saying anything either way on the reality of the moon landings)
    What we 'think' was available in VFX compared to what was possibly available, is a huge gap.
    I like the idea that NASA/the US government invented a load of super-advanced video and visual effects technology, and kept it top secret. Developing secret weapons tech? Sure. Developing secret video tech? Seems pretty unlikely.

    I suggest you don't engage me anymore because your self righteous crap of ignoring peoples opinions and just attacking the person and being obtuse has annoyed me now.
    That last post of yours kinda does exactly that, though. While I agree Andrew's posts were far more aggressive than they had any need to be, replying in exactly the same way doesn't exactly help the situation, especially when you're trying to point out the flaws in Andrew's approach. :)

    Pointing out what is wrong with peoples actions is what's actually wrong with just the internet in general.
    I'm with Matthias on this one. Pointing out when people are wrong is massively important to society and to individuals. Identifying a flaw and then correcting it is how progress is defined, whether we're talking about civil rights, personality quirks, filmmaking skill or anything else. If we avoid that process so as to not upset or insult people, everybody will be in trouble.
    Of course, the crucial thing is to point out these flaws in a friendly, constructive manner. And offer some solutions, don't just point out what's wrong. If somebody's incapable of providing constructive criticism then, yes, it's probably best for everybody that they keep quiet.
    I've improved immeasurably as a writer, filmmaker and person due to people giving me honest feedback and criticism throughout my life. It's what makes me me, and I'm very happy about that.
    On the other hand, people that are unnecessarily aggressive, blame others when things go wrong, never quite achieve what they want, make consistently poor quality work - that's usually because they don't listen to criticism in an intelligent manner. It's a massively important skill to learn when you're young - possibly the most important skill.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,729 Ambassador
    edited January 2013
    I think these guys definitively answer the question with expediency. They take on the claims of the nay sayers and deal with them directly. If you haven't seen this I hope you find it compelling.









    The issue of film speed addressed.



    AND HERE'S THE PROOF IF ANYONE DOUBTS SHELDON COOPER!
  • Thelurkerish
    Thelurkerish Website User Posts: 141


    I think this covers it rather well
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Moderator, Website User, Ambassador, Imerge Beta Tester, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 2,729 Ambassador
    edited January 2013


    I think this covers it rather well
    LOL- exactly like politicians/bureaucrats! Bravo!
  • Aculag
    Aculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out
    I can't wait for the copyright debate to start up in this thread.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast

    My last post was to prove a point Simon, i have ignored Andrews bullsh*t attitude up to know, but sometimes a taste of your own medicine is needed.
    He now has the option to not engage me as i suggested or from now on i treat him how he treats others, his call !!
    Do I have a bullshit attitude, though? My attitude may be snarky and pretentious, but it's well-drawn and thought-out in how it's communicated, which is a far cry from what you write. Hardly a 'taste of my own medicine'.
    I'm not bitter or 'butthurt' (a rather detestable and homophobic term, might I add). I owe this place and the original people from it everything in making me less resistant to criticism, to my own personal and professional growth, and to understanding and better communicating relevant and important topics and themes with others.
    That matters to me. So this whole trend and wave of lazy troll-like users who tout the word 'opinion' a lot and don't care to really contribute anything but get angry at semantics I do, in truth, find rather annoying.
    As for my comment on Corridor Digital or freddiew- I'm very happy for them and their success, and I have nothing against them. I'm sure you have no basis of understanding this, but I've been friends with Niko and Sam of Corridor Digital for 10 years now. They, as a duo, sort of 'passed off the torch' to myself and my brother on the old FXHome site all those years ago, and I've gone to them for advice and guidance and discussion ever since. I followed them through highschool on the site, and then their college years and kept up with their endeavors- long, long before Corridor Digital ever existed in its current form.
    I consider them friends. There is no ill-will or jealousy or bitterness held toward any of them- but knowing their ambitions and talents, I do have a healthy and supportive hope that they go further than YouTube with what they're doing. I know it will happen eventually. My comments regarding them 'not being filmmakers' aligned more with describing effects tests as narrative shorts (instead of, say, the excellent Portal short film, which has both story and effects) and my apathy toward the 'YouTube system', which deliberately attempts to and often succeeds in 'trapping' its content creators in video production in order to maintain revenue streams serviceable enough to live on. It's a crazy and awful thing, in truth, the way YouTube handles monetization and expectations with certain partners- and lots of the comments you're referencing refer directly to that. I know this because I'm both a power-ranked YouTube partner myself (meaning I have 3 million+ views on my channel), and run revenue streams as the social media director on multiple other millions-upon-million-view channels for a larger company. My bitterness, if any, comes from a deeper understanding and annoyance with the manipulative and controlling nature of the viral video site with its contributing users.
  • NullUnit
    NullUnit Website User Posts: 791 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, I think the Mythbusters did the best job of disproving the conspiracy theories about the moon landing. Now we just need to prove that the Transformers got there first!
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Website User Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    edited January 2013
    Win Conway,
    I can remember back when I first joined the FxHome forums back in 2007 and had my many encounters with Andrew, (then known as Atom). He was blunt, direct and sometimes rude, as I see he still is. However he is a very well respected filmmaker, and in my mind was a well respected member of the FxHome community.
    There is a lot that can be learned from Andrew. He is not "butthurt" (which I do see as a homosexual slur). He cares. He cares about this community and about this site. Like me, he sees this site turning into a "youtube" like site, as far as content goes. It is hard to see it turn into that type of commenting system. Not that the old FxHome was some kind of perfect paradise, but there was quite a few great discussions, that were much deeper than what has been seen around here. I believe that Aculag and I had a discussion about this months, maybe even a year ago. Sadly it hasn't changed much for the better.
    Atom is right. For the most part. You are acting trollish. The way it looks here, Atom decided to criticize your method of posting, which was honestly less than thoughtful, and he did it in a rather harsh manner. However you were the first to start the silly name calling in this one. You started with the inflammatory comments. He was harsh and blunt in his criticism, more so than he needed to be, however like I said, you started punching first. Or that is how I see it. I'm not saying you contribute nothing to this community, but in this thread, your contributions have been less than profitable.
    As for the "opinion" conversation, I have to side with Andrew on that one. I think everyone around here tries to hide behind the it's my opinion so how dare you challenge it mindset. Everyone's opinions should be challenged to some extent, in order to help you and others understand why you believe what you believe. It isn't enough just to have opinions about something, those opinions should be well founded. If they are not, and they are challenged, it is probably about time you find out why you believe what you do, in order to adequately and intelligently defend it.
    As far as Sam, Niko, and Freddie go, I too would say that they have been less than "filmmakers" in the past. Ignoring the recent Video Game High School from Freddie and Prism from Sam and Niko, they made very very few other "films". That is my opinion anyway. They are some of the best at what they do, but typically what they do is special effects tests. Not films. That is Andrew's point, if you read between the I hate the way youtube works opinion that is so thickly layered in there.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Andrew,
    As I said in my post(s) above, you are, in my eyes, a very good filmmaker and have personally helped me grow as not only a filmmaker but as a person. You are smart. You are opinionated. You are blunt. Sometimes those things cause trouble as they have here. I recognize the need, as do you, for more intelligent and thought out discussion, however I do believe you were a bit too harsh in your original criticism of Win Conway. I hope that we can have more intelligent, and less harsh conversation on here in the future.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To both of you,
    I have done very little in this community to make me a "respected" member of any sort, so if you want to, you can simply disregard my thoughts on these topics. I would only ask that you think about these things when posting in the future.
    Thank you, and have a wonderful day/night.
    - Matthias Claflin
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013
    @Matthias While people respect talent, it is a little hard to respect that talent if the person keeps bringing up their talent. I do know Andrew cares about FXhome and Hitfilm and these forums, but sometimes it seems people get talked down to for not engaging in activities his way. I see him as a valuable resource which is personally inaccessible to me because of a barriers related to personal disputes that add up to a hill of beans. I do not have a problem with people being real to me but unsolicited snarkiness can sully someone's experience. From a noobie I could disregard snarkiness, but form a veteran it can rub someone the wrong way. It would be like having Steven Spielberg audit your class and almost every time you say something he raises his hand and he gives you valid advice in a dick manor. Your teachers and some of your classmates are honored to have THE Steven Spielberg in their class and don't say anything to him and all you're thinking about is why does this guy being a dick?
    This is a voluntary community, so lets respect each other. No more thread jacking either ;). Can we have a FX Home Fight Club forum? It could be a hidden forum where you have to have posted for at least 2 calendar years before you get access. Once you have access you can have an all out 1 on 1 verbal brawl in front of people. Or we could just not fight... either way is good but if we do fight club I call Ed Norton's character.
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Website User Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    Dear Michael James,
    I would never argue that Atom isn't snarky. He didn't even argue that. He has been a bit harsh, in my opinion, but I still think he is right. We need to have well drawn out, thought out, discussion here. If you have an opinion, and you post it, that is nice. But if you opinion is "attacked" or whatever you want to call it, then defend it. Defend it through logical reasoning and intelligent debate. Not through personal attacks and name calling. I haven't gone back and re-read Andrew's post on this thread to Win Conway, but if I remember correctly, he didn't personally attack him, he just "attacked" the way he was writing his posts. Which, if he thinks he is in the right, should then intelligently and logically defend his way of posting rather than attack Andrew personally. Of course that is just my opinion.
    Thanks for listening ;)
    Have a wonderful day/night!
    - Matthias Claflin
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Website User Posts: 506
    I saw that episode of mythbusters, I believe it was not faked. I dont know where the rumor ever started about the moon landing being faked. It happen before i was around.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Website User Posts: 506
    I always figured this program is for people trying to learn and you dont have to make short films or films. Using youtube for your test effects, SO!! I just dont get it why people can go on and quit arguing on here. Enough said, good moon landing myth vid
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013
    Matthias - I agree with your view on how you'd like the community to be. Some really good points in there. There are problems in this particular topic on multiple perspectives. The key thing is that if one person posts something counter-productive, it's up to everybody else to not bite.
    As we've said in the past, if people want good debate, you have to bring it. Don't wait for others to do so. That's what I try and do, anyway - regularly post considered reviews of people's movies and contribute intelligently to discussion topics. And I've seen many good topics take off around here. There's a mix of quality in terms of forum content, as there will be anywhere, and I definitely agree that we all need to put more effort in to raise the general quality of contributions, but I do genuinely believe we're headed in the right direction - even if it feels a little slow at times.
    It's really not very different to FXhome's old forums back when they were really active. A lot of the veterans that were on the FXhome forums in the latter years remember that close-knit atmosphere, but that's partly because the forums had quietened down so much that there were only a close-knit group left. Which was fun and intimate, but not healthy in the long-term. Where we're at now with HitFilm.com's forum might not be so immediately satisfying, especially to those veterans, but it has much better prospects in the long-term.
    Win/Andrew - if you want to continue your discussions please do so in private messages. Don't clog up the forum itself, unless you're both happy to change the tone to something more productive. Thanks.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013
    Just to be clear, my first post in this thread was- with the exception of the first short sentence, bluntly calling out the laziness-guised-as-discussing-opinion of Win Conway- completely and thoroughly directed at the content of the video and the moon-landing itself. The retort of being 'self importance' in someone's eyes I've (to my knowledge) never ever previously spoken to (as I don't view these forums with any regular frequency) did incite and necessitate, in my mind, a more defensive and aggressive post. I have no threats or ill-will to push out as being "warned not to engage" anyone again. That's just silly. And, to be clear again, I mean and haven't ever gone back on anything I've said of Corridor Digital or freddiew. My thoughts on them, their work, and where they're at in what they're doing has been consistent and blunt for quite a while. No idea how that got into the argument, but yeah. It's silly to 'call me out' on something I'm otherwise very, very transparent about. Which is, funny enough, just my opinion on them all. ;)
    Nevertheless, I apologize if that got us more besides the point than needed to be.
    My attitude here is simply to present and inspire a greater level and quality of discussion, as I saw grow over numerous years and to the benefit of many over on the old FXHome. Maybe that's assy, maybe it's snarky to say so. But I hardly think that constitutes 'me me me' mentality. The word "self important" to describe myself by two posters in this forum has been used 10-15 times, and that's startling.
    I'm not saying 'be like me'- I'm a very blunt asshole in internet-form, everyone knows it. Always have been, probably always will be. I'm saying talk on a higher level here, where discussion and critical thought and opinion can be elevated.
    And also to be clear, I've taken maybe two of these principaled stands in etiquette and content ever here on Hitfilm.com, and much of the rest of my interaction has been/is promotion and presentation of my own work. If the latter of those things, additionally, makes me seem self-important. Well, phooey. Can't help that.
    Hope that clears that up, apologies to all else for the intrusion.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013

    Actually i have just read Mathias posts and as he had posted a huge post about how out of order i am and the staff have agreed, im done. I wont be posting again.
    'The staff' haven't agreed, I agreed. I share a desire for the community to be an interesting, fun and civil place. Those are the sentiments I was agreeing with in Matthias' posts. I don't see why anybody would want to disagree with those concepts. This isn't specific to any particular personalities for me, it's about the overall tone of the place. I've edited the post above to clarify that.
    As this topic unfortunately has been derailed repeatedly now, I'm going to lock it.
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!