Intel CEO on the Evolution of PCs. Are you interested in a Complet?

MichaelJames
MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
So there was an interesting article on CNET from the CEO of Intel on PCs evolving into tablets. With Windows 8's pushing touch from the realm of mobile to home computer usage the computers will start changing. CES just passed and we got a peak of what is in store for this year and touch is officially in. Not everyone uses a smart phone, but a larger portion of the population in America has or can use a PC. Will you be making the move to touch computing?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57564603-92/intel-ceo-the-pc-is-shape-shifting-into-a-tablet/
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Comments

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Touch is great on mobile and tablet-type devices, because they tend to sit on your lap or in your hand. Desktop and laptop computers tend to sit in front of you with the screen at arm's length, though, so I'm not entirely sure how that'd work with touch without it being irritating/tiring.
    Touch is great, but I'm not convinced that it's universally useful yet. I have to move my arm a lot more with a touch UI on a proper computer than with a mouse UI, which to me seems like an inefficient backwards step (that's obviously not an issue on a mobile, where the screen can be fully navigated with just a single outstretched finger).
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    There are a lot of things on a computer that are used by most people daily, that a Tablet does not have, even the computers that have the attach keyboard. There are the Drive burners, usb, firewire, and etc. I like the mouse still, easier to use than a finger.
    Wow, I feel old, the mouse is 30 years old.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Well, firewire and optical media are barely used anymore (the latter in particular), so I don't see a particular need to put them into tablets. Lots of (non Apple) tablets already include USB ports, though.
    For a non-mobile device, touch isn't a replacement for the mouse, though it does complement it nicely.
  • Robin
    Robin Posts: 1,669 Enthusiast

    Besides that touch is already out of date
    https://leapmotion.com/
    not only vastly cheaper than touch but if the rumours are true, vastly more accurate too, we shall see (Doesn't interest me in this particular form , but in terms of me owning a motion capture setup, i'm very interested in this tech)
    I saw that, and that sounds really interesting - true, it won't do that much for video editing because for that, it would do nothing more than a basic touch interface would (or maybe some small independent software company would come up with a brilliant idea to incorporate it...? *hint hint* :D ), but as a 3D artist this would be hugely useful. Right now, if you don't have something like a 3D mouse which can be quite expensive, navigation in 3D space relies on the middle mouse button and maybe a modifier key pressed plus a mouse movement, which blocks any other mouse-based action while moving. With this, you could use your left hand in the air to quickly move the scene around, while you continue to work with the mouse in the right hand. Would be dependent on the developers of a program to incorporate it, but Blender for example evolves so quickly being open source I'm sure they will come up with something quite quickly.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast

    Can't say i agree, non mobile pretty much means "Workhorse" now, and you are not going to do anything with great accuracy with touch, unless you are using some kind of pen and then you may as well be using a mouse no ?
    Besides that touch is already out of date
    https://leapmotion.com/
    not only vastly cheaper than touch but if the rumours are true, vastly more accurate too, we shall see (Doesn't interest me in this particular form , but in terms of me owning a motion capture setup, i'm very interested in this tech)
    The lack of accuracy is really in video games and things which require fast precision. Your finger will work faster then a mouse in most cases and when you need pixel accuracy a style works well. Also you can still have a mouse and use it as needed.
    @Simon the way they are planning to integrate touch to avoid being tiring is by a paradigm shift on what a PC looks like. In a current PC configuration touch would seem annoying. A all in one pc/tablet could laid flat, or put at an angle so that touch makes sense. This allows you to move your desktop from the confines of your computer desk. You can still easily use a mouse in addition to touch but quick navigation can work well with touch. Think of your monitor where your keyboard is. You would not have to move your arms too much over a 24" complet.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506

    Can't say i agree, non mobile pretty much means "Workhorse" now, and you are not going to do anything with great accuracy with touch, unless you are using some kind of pen and then you may as well be using a mouse no ?
    Besides that touch is already out of date
    https://leapmotion.com/
    not only vastly cheaper than touch but if the rumours are true, vastly more accurate too, we shall see (Doesn't interest me in this particular form , but in terms of me owning a motion capture setup, i'm very interested in this tech)
    So, we are now getting into the age of Tony Starks computer system. Just joking. Thanks what the leap reminds me of.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    I really dont think anytime soon the desktop or laptop are going to be extinct. These computers, the mouse, and external drives will be around for a long time. Tablets are fine for on the go or travel, but will never be as good as a computer! I still have a sony digital tape camera I love to use, using firewire is the best way to get the tape on a computer. I have these cameras that take a sd card, but something about the digital tape cameras that I still like.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    It's not that desktop and laptop computers will suddenly no longer exist, but that they'll gradually merge in various ways with tablets. Well, perhaps not desktops, but certainly laptops and tablets are already converging. With tech like the NVIDIA Shield coming up, I wouldn't be surprised to see your tablet/laptop device also serving as your main desktop computer, at which point you simply connect it up to a larger screen and more accurate controls.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    Who said extinct? Its called evolving. Computers use to be big as houses and looked and functioned very different then today. Desktops haven't been supplanted by laptops because we need something powerful. As laptops were finally getting faster there was a shift to smaller ultrabooks and we lost some of the power and features. Also Laptops never replaced desktops because their keyboards, monitor size and graphic cards were very limited. Complets aren't giving up anything desktops have except for optical disk drives. You can use a mouse and keyboard on everything now(thank you Bluetooth), and optical drives... external drives work fine. If we all had complets it wouldn't actually force you to do most things differently. You could have it angled up or sitting on an attachment so it functions like a monitor and you can still use your keyboard and mouse. You'd have external drives that you could connect as needed.
    Desktops and laptops will go extinct. This year? no? eventually? yes. Technology is as limited as our imaginations and our resources as the time. People already buy all in ones where the monitor houses everything. As a gamer I just need power from my computer and if a Tablet or Complet could offer the exact same power in my beast of a machine I would easily get it. Saying never when it comes to technology is ignoring how fast technology improves. Things get updated and old stuff becomes outdated. Firewire is outdated... just like usb 1.0 and even usb 2.0 As soon as usb Super Speed 3.0 is out(which is faster then normal 3.0) then so will the Thunderbolt connection. Personal preference is fine, people can like old technology just fine but I would encourage you to give the new stuff a try.
    I know people who had AOL or other various slow internet connections because they were just fine with the experience so they never looked into anything new. They didn't know about significantly faster/cheaper internet technologies. There was an episode of family guy were they made a joke regarding this type of discovery. Desktops are already on the decline... Tablets are coming up. Im waiting for Google Glasses to catch up to the level of cell phones because then I know that would be a purchase I would make. That will be the first step to Tony Stark type technology.
  • Robin
    Robin Posts: 1,669 Enthusiast
    Well, I know one thing for sure - for video editing, I absolutely need a big screen (and by big, I don't mean huge, just something notably larger than a standard notebook/tablet screen) and a device that allows pixel-precise input - both of which can't be given by today's tablets, except for when you connect a mouse / graphics tablet and an external display, and then the difference to a desktop isn't that big anymore.
    If then they also do deliver the same power as my desktop does, I would be perfectly fine with using a tablet for work, as long as I can plug another display and a precision input device into it. But until that is given, there's no way around desktop PCs in this field.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    The thing about claiming "desktops and laptops will go extinct" is that it kinda misses the point. Laptops, desktops and tablets all fulfil very different needs. They're similar, but different devices. One does not replace the other.
    I wouldn't be surprised to see all three of them evolve to become one device, though. As Robin says, a tablet that can essentially be 'docked' into a keyboard to become a laptop and 'docked' into a larger screen to become a desktop.
    In that case, you're not seeing the extinction of anything, but its natural evolution.
    It's why Microsoft had something conceptually very special with Surface, back when they announced it: they basically had the first iteration of a device that does what Robin and I just described. But then they confused matters with the stupid RT version, messed up the marketing and basically 'did a Microsoft'. It's now just a matter of time before somebody else (probably Google, possibly Apple) pick up the slack and do the idea properly.
  • Robin
    Robin Posts: 1,669 Enthusiast
    Some companies already exploring that way properly are asus and canonical.
    Asus with it's padfone which can be docked into a larger screen with an additional battery to become a tablet which can itself be docked into a keyboard with again another additional battery to essentially become a laptop, all with a an automatically rescaling android interface.
    Canonical in the meantime is developing a tight integration of Ubuntu and Android, basically they have a phone running some kind of a mobile OS, and when it get's docked into a special docking station connected to a screen, you get a full Ubuntu on that Screen running on your phone.
    Both very promising concepts, which can offer huge potential when being further developed, probably integrated with each other and getting cheaper.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    @ Simon I only made the statement that they will go extinct because first the claim that they will never go away is kinda bold. Also, I think when they can solve portability issue for desktops or the computering power for laptops we will see both fade into one device.
    There have been many attempts for cellphones that dock into desktop modes. Also cellphones that dock into tablets which work well. My WiiU has a tablet that it streams video at the same time it displays on the TV. Could they make a 22 in tablet that holds a desktop's power which I take with me and set up when I need a desktop experience and if I need more screens mirror the home screen onto a smart tv? People carry 22" wide screen laptops...(not most people they like super small ultrabooks). Desktops will be available because some people love the ability to build them.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Samsung's flexible screens are potentially the most important computer development at the moment. Taking that tech (much) further, you potentially end up with screens that can be folded, stretched, rolled etc. At which point the size of the screen becomes irrelevant - you simply have a flexible screen that can go from phone size up to a 22" monitor simply by pulling/unfolding it.
    Rigid screens are the main thing holding back portable computer design at the moment.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    I saw some of those folded displays. It is really an interesting concept that would allow you to make anything house a screen. Now Im just waiting for screen technology which does not crack when dropped a foot on concrete. I am on my second galaxy s3
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    What I should have said, are the desktop and laptop going to extinct. I need a screen (Big). I hate to say it, I still use my ports, I have to have a built in burner. I really dont see a benfit in taking your desktop merge into a tablet anywhere and then you drop it or it gets stolen and it is all gone. I honestly think, these companies will try it and see where it goes. I would say in my lifetime which I should have 50 more years left, there will always be a labtop or desktop to buy, since they will be in production. People said when the 3D came out and was so much better that it would not last, well they are wrong so far. I personally need a laptop and a mouse if I need to take it somewhere and my desktop.
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    Ok people have always hyped 3d. The truth has been its ore of a hassle for productions to account for. A lot of visual cheats do not work for it. You can till have a big screen, and ports and a burner.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    3D is an interesting case. The industry has spent the last 3 years insisting that people want it, despite most people seeming to be largely apathetic towards it. It was interesting to get the sense at CES that 3D really isn't the big story anymore.
    It seems like the movie industry tries to establish 3D every 30 years-or-so. Maybe they'll crack it in 2040.
    One thing you can be sure of...all our predictions in this topic are probably waaaaay off the mark. :P
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    Well they were pushing 3d and now 4k/uhd as a way to keep costs up. Avatar was an amazingly beautiful movie but most movies will not be designed for 3d. I stopped paying for 3d movies after seeing so many 3d movies which were crap. Clash of the titans and How to train your dragons were terrible in 3d. Clash of the Titans was just bad too. 3d without glasses and then need to sit in 1 of 9 positions will make it a must buy. ANy other form of 3d is a waste of money, especially with competing and evolving technologies. 4k sounds great... but is a great marketing ploy until the content and price is there... also if you are going above 55" tv.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    I have to disagree about the 3D movies. The bulk of 3D movies I've seen are great. The problem here with people not liking the 3D is this, that they think all of the movie should be coming right at them. The idea of 3D is to watch a movie in a 3D aspect. Some like it some dont. There has been a few 3D movies that were bad, like Tron 2 was one of them. The Dolby 3D keeps a lot of the color to the movie. I like the 3D movies and they are still selling big in theaters.
    I know that was off the subject of the computer tablet thing, but the 3D movies are a big seller. Back long ago, you had the old time 3D, now that was horrible.
  • Prospero
    Prospero Posts: 127
    Hugo Cabret was supposed to be Scoresese big 3d Film but I found after watching in 3d and 2d that the 3d was far more obtrusive in the film where you notice, oh its in 3d being an effect rather than a seamless part of the story.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    edited January 2013
    3D in movies has a couple of fundamental problems for me.
    1. At worst, 3D is distracting when done badly or without subtlety, in which case I'd rather just watch in 2D. At best, 3D feels a natural part of the film and you don't really notice it after the first 5 minutes, in which case it may as well not be there at all. This double-whammy kinda makes the whole thing a bit irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
    2. Movies and TV are fixed-perspective mediums. The movie has already been filmed. 3D is only ever, at best, an illusion. No matter how much I move my viewpoint, I can't look around something or get a different perspective on the action. Even if a film is shot in 3D, it's still essentially a flat, fixed, two dimensional thing - albeit masquerading as 3D.
    The exception to this, of course, is 3D computer gaming. In this case, you're viewing something with a free camera, which reacts to your actions in various ways, or is even directly controlled by the viewer. This means that not only is the projection in 3D, the environment you are viewing is also is real 3D and can be explored by the viewer. It's a proper 3D space.
    (by this logic, a linear, fixed narrative movie but which is somehow presented in a free-camera 3D manner would be very interesting. Basically a movie, but one in which I can move around inside. Kinda blending recorded medium with the perception of live theatre)
    So, for me, 3D in games (particularly using something like Oculus Rift) is hugely exciting. 3D in fixed-perspective visual mediums, though, will always seem a little pointless to me.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    I saw Hanson and Gretel and that was a good 3d movie, had some elements that seem like it went into my head. I found for me that 3d video games are hard on my eyes and gives me a headache. I would like to find a good video converter to turn a clip into 3D like the 3D for the dolby systems. I have seen a few bad 3D movies, but the good ones, I never forget after the first 5 Minutes it's in 3D. To me makes the movie more realistic.
  • Ben
    Ben Posts: 51
    edited January 2013
    Haven't had the time to read this whole thread yet, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
    I use a Nokia Lumia 900 Windows Phone that suits my needs, but I find it lacking features of my brother's iPhone 5 that I really like. So my phone isn't quite the 'portable computer' I want it to be yet. Then we go to tablets, my brother has an iPad, which is better for more work-related stuff like presenting proposals to clients, but it's still not a fully-fledged computer. Then he has his MacBook Air, which is intended to be mobile, but still a 'full computer'. With three devices all doing derivatives of the same thing, it does indeed seem like the gap could be bridge.
    Then you get to me, where I found myself in need of a new computer to replace my old 2009 Dell Inspiron, which I had purchased for only $450 new at the time. I thought long and hard about buying a tablet, a MacBook Air, or a MacBook Pro, but -- tempted by Windows 8 'matching' my phone's style and eyeing the new devices at the Microsoft Store here in Austin, I decided to pick up an Asus VivoBook instead.
    The VivoBook is a 3rd-generation i5 processor with a 'flex' SSD and combination hard drive, so it runs fast. I got it for $607 including tax after grabbing some in-store promotions. But here's the best part - it has a touch screen. At first it seemed gimmicky, like its integration was just a sales tool and not a real innovative development. But after using Windows 8 with it for two weeks, I can attest to the fact that touch integration is awesome, especially for simple commands like turning volume up or down, changing screen brightness or toggling WiFi using Windows 8 charms.
    On the right and left sides of the MacBooks in my apartment, I've been accidentally touching the screens hoping to turn volume up and down, or flick to another app. Whoops. Asus VivoBook has already sold me. And it's thin as hell, with the Ultrabook certification.
  • DanielGWood
    DanielGWood Posts: 1,018 Just Starting Out
    Jumping back to touch-based everything, I think it's going to take a massive adjustment for everyone who grew up with a mouse. I have a trackpad on my Macbook which I can use for most things, but in Photoshop? No chance. I think the reason I find it difficult is the lack of tactile response, which my battered old razor mouse does well. Nor do I think a stylus would help there - I recently tried to use a biro for more than 10 minutes, and my damn hand cramped up.
    That said though, the modular devices thing Simon and Robin (maybe you should change your name to Batman?) mentioned seems like a logical step forward to me, seen a few concepts for that which look promising. I just think there will always be a place for desktops when doing prolonged work.
  • Robin
    Robin Posts: 1,669 Enthusiast
    Robin (maybe you should change your name to Batman?)
    That cracked me up, thank you :D
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    edited January 2013
    I just dont like tablets. I can never see using a program like HF2 on a tablet, but I guess it would be nice to have a not so heavy computer to take on a trip..
  • MichaelJames
    MichaelJames Posts: 2,034 Enthusiast
    @Guitar you are free to like 3d movies... but do acknowledge that in general most people think most 3d movies fall very flat. I've seen SOOOOO many bad 3d movies that unless the movie was planned for 3d filming I am not going to see it. Dredd 3d(in some scenes) and Jackass 3d were 2 of the best 3d movies (without mentioning avatar). That is my opinion and if 3d was amazing like avatar in most movies they would do mostly 3d showings. The problem with most 3d movies being made 3d after the fact is that they only make certain parts of the movie a little 3d. I remember sitting in clash of the titans and lifting up my glasses and comparing(like I do in every movie) and seeing that most scenes less then 10% of the screen would have a Lite 3d affect applied to it. "THat giant scorpion is in a little bit of 3d. Tablets are eating away at PC sales because Tablets give enough functionality to replace a PC for the average user. Sync up a keyboard or buy a table like the transformer prime and you no longer need a netbook/ultrabook/laptop on average. Now they are beefing up tablets to the point where soon PCs will be like CRT monitors. You still see them around but not that much. If I had a 24" Complet that had about the same specs for internal graphics card and CPU I could choose to not ever use it as a tablet and just leave it at my desk and have a keyboard and mouse and use it like a standard PC.
    @Ben Windows phones are lacking due to the apps but that should be changing by the end of this year. Software makes the hardware sell. If windows and android were equal in apps I would drop android in a heart beat.
    @Daniel I am was part of that first generation to have computers from 1st grade to now(I remember teachers asking does anyone have a computer and being the only one to raise their hand) so I know the mouse comfortability better then anyone else. Track pads have always been kinda annoying due never having a reference point to where the pointer is on the screen and terribly touchy or unresponsive trackpads. Working directly on the monitor with even current level cellphone touch would be way more intuitive. For a program like photoshop you wouldn't use your hand for precision but you would use one of the few good stylus... from a pressure sensitive stylus to even a plan firm tipped stylus pen. If you do not like the stylus idea or the idea of touch.. you can bust out the Microsoft Touch Arc, and a Bluetooth keyboard while you ease into learning a new style of control.

    Before the Complet fully is brought to market we can look at these Tabtops. http://www.cnet.com/laptops/asus-taichi/4505-3121_7-35551086.html I knew these would be useful because my Asus Transformer Prime has had a dock for a long time which made it feel very much like a netbook when I needed it.
  • guitar74
    guitar74 Posts: 506
    Michael James
    I Never said all 3D movies were good. There are a lot of good ones. I never heard anyone saying they hate 3D. Titanic was done well for a coversion. I think the problem with 3D movies is this, that people think the hole movies is going to be in their face and things poping out of the screen, you know what I mean. To watch a movie in 3D is to experice demisons to the movie, instead of a movie looking flat. I know some people hate it, but I love it. There were some bad 3D movies, but I dont go see every one of them.
    Like someone said about computers, there will be destops and laptops being sold like the ones today for a very long time. I do see the tablet phasing out. Way down the road.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    I can't recall a time while watching a movie when I've ever thought "this is a bit flat", though. While traditional film is projected onto a flat surface, it's still representing a 3D location that was filmed. It's not like a video camera somehow magically sucks out all perspective from a shot.
    3D movies where things jump out of the screen I actually understand a lot more. 3D makes a TON of sense for some genres, like shlocky horror. Great fun. But used subtly, 3D might as well not be there at all.
    If 3D was non-intrusive then it wouldn't matter either way - I have nothing explicitly against 3D as a concept because, as I say, it doesn't really make a difference for me whether it's there or not. But the triple-whammy of annoying glasses, darkened projection and ridiculously inflated ticket prices mean that 3D is a no-go area for me currently.