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Comments

  • AculagAculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2012
    Here's the video that's on the page that's linked. Five seconds worth of effort, FYI.
    Pretty interesting breakdown of "that one shot" from the film where all the heroes psychically communicate and choreograph their every move in a completely realistic manner that isn't silly at all.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Aculag... 5 seconds worth of effort for me... or 5 seconds of effort for anyone whose interested.
  • AculagAculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2012
    A little extra effort is worth it if it means your post is actually going to have some content. This is a discussion forum after all. If you're not even going to say anything about the topic you've started, why bother? *shrug*
  • ThelurkerishThelurkerish Website User Posts: 141
    It was a very interesting video seeing a bit of the process of making such an epic shot but it did leave with two thoughts
    1) how stupid was that iron man move where he shots at caps shield rather than directly at the people next to him, any miscommunication and Cap would of been splatted
    2) that guy at 1:18 seconds has the best job ever
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Aculag... that's a terrible argument. I provided a link. This type of convenience argument is one of reader laziness. I didn't talk about things and then leave it for readers to find it. In the end its opinion and you are free to have yours ;).
    @The Lurkerish... yea having Scarlett ride you... and you get paid for it... I agree... best job ever. That was a stupid move, especially for a team which has only been a team for like 12 hours, but it was just meant to show them working well together.
  • ESPicturesESPictures Website User Posts: 533 Just Starting Out
    Doing something incredibly foolish, but flashy is also sort of in character for Tony Stark.
  • AculagAculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2012
    It might be in character for Stark to be flashy, but it's not in any of their characters to be clairvoyant. It just happened to be convenient for them all to be that way, if only for that once scene.

    @Aculag... that's a terrible argument. I provided a link. This type of convenience argument is one of reader laziness. I didn't talk about things and then leave it for readers to find it. In the end its opinion and you are free to have yours ;).
    You provided a link, and exactly nothing else. There are other forums I frequent where starting such a low content thread would see you banned. It's got nothing to do with reader laziness (obviously at least one of your "readers" followed the link), and everything to do with poster laziness. If you want to start a thread, you ought to encourage people to discuss the content, not just copy/paste a link and call it done. It's obviously something you found interesting enough to post about, so why not give even a basic description of what's contained in the link, or your opinion of it? Or even just embed the video instead of linking to a page with only slightly more effort put into it? Baffling.
    Sorry, it's just that expecting other people to start the discussion in a thread that you posted doesn't make any sense to me, personally. It might seem like a pointless formality to begin the discussion in your own thread, but that kind of thing elevates this kind of forum above many others. We're here to converse, not just to swap links. But if that's how you want to do things, I'm in no position to stop you, or anyone else. Carry on. I'll let this little derail end here. :)
  • NullUnitNullUnit Website User Posts: 791 Just Starting Out
    edited December 2012


    Pretty interesting breakdown of "that one shot" from the film where all the heroes psychically communicate and choreograph their every move in a completely realistic manner that isn't silly at all.
    Yes, because super hero movies are always realistic and based on real science. Like Batman, totally real.
    Anyways... To go back to what this thread was actually about: That shot is awesome and my favorite shot in the movie. I was really surprised to hear in the commentary that they considered not having that shot in the movie. Love seeing the breakdown.
  • ESPicturesESPictures Website User Posts: 533 Just Starting Out
    I don't see how clairvoyance was used. Stark just shot his weapon at the Captain's shield and the Captain used the ricochet. They're a little vague on CA's abilities, but I wouldn't think improved reaction time is beyond the realm of possibility. I don't find the scene improbable, as long as you accept the premise that they have superhuman abilities. I thought it was neat how they managed to pull off what appears to be a single long shot.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Aculag... Posted it for others to talk see. Your have some strong opinions. Good thing im not under any obligation to care. Thanks for the opinions:)
    The Avengers is a great movie but realism isn't needed or to be expected. CA's abilities is he was pushed to peak human perfection. So his muscles do not fatigue at the same rate as a humans and like any athlete his reaction time is increased too. I looked up Black Widow... because I was wondering why she was on the avengers if shes just a normal woman with guns. Didn't know she was part of a super soldier knock off program.
    @Null Unit... I bet dollars to donuts that The Avengers 2 has a similar shot. It worked well.
  • AndrewAndrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited December 2012
    What an asshole, MichaelJames. Aculag's attitude here is nothing but helpful, and your careless post didn't warrant any response. I only kept on it because Aculag embedded the link, and the devil-may-care attitude that things 'aren't your problem' and being critical of others for being helpful and pointing out that the forums are about spirited insight and discussion- is nothing to turn a snobby nose at.
    As for the video, this was one of the only enthusing and impressive parts of the Avengers- and even then, I felt it was done with far, far too much reliance on visual effects. What, they can't have actors in-costume fighting Thor the way they have for Black Widow? Or an actual prop aircraft instead of a giant cardboard box for what Hulk and Thor are standing on. The reliance and thought-process just feels way too George Lucas-y to me.
    I'd rather have seen the bluescreen portion of Captain America's shot. The shield-beam deflection looked like very awkward, uncanny valley CG to me.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    Im sorry Andrew, but I take someone telling me how I should have done something as an asshole. Its like people who correct your use of the English language, or spelling. Sure it can be viewed as helpful, but is it really worth mentioning? I did it fast and it was already up. Really it matters enough to mention it? Again its personal opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs. If he sent me a personal message and said it I wouldn't view it as one of those people who just likes to correct people. Just like your personal remarks are automatically gonna make me realize this silly. At the end of the day does it matter? Did someone die? Did someone lose their job? Did I put anyone in danger? or is this the internet and all it meant was 1 more click. We can keep talking about this like its a big deal or we can realize this is silly. Most arguments that occur online would never happen in person because it goes out of the bounds of good taste.
  • KahvehRobinettKahvehRobinett Website User Posts: 443
    edited December 2012
    99.9 % of the time I agree with Andrew and Aculag. This little argument hasn’t changed that.
    Back on topic.
    Fxguide also has a pretty cool article on the Avengers. http://www.fxguide.com/featured/vfx-roll-call-for-the-avengers/
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Kahveh.... 60% of the time it works 100% of the time. Thank you for posting that FX guide.
    “The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a wide-spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible”
    -Bertrand Russell
    I know when I am being the villain and I know when I am the braggart. Me positing the above quote is me as the braggart. If I get offended because I feel slighted by an unnecessary comment of " Five seconds worth of effort, FYI." Then it is what it is. Aculag if what I said offended you or your constituents I am sorry. This is a forum for amazing software... lets just stay focused on that. Its too easy to slip into random internet fights over opinions, they always end with "U mad bro?" haha. On that note... watch the BBC show Coppers. ;)
  • AndrewAndrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited December 2012
    You ask why any of this is worth mentioning? I'll tell you.
    It's because your entire attitude, MichaelJames, under the guise of 'everyone is entitled to their own opinion', is a lazy, haughty, and mean-spirited one that isn't conducive to good online discussion. Just because something is 'done fast and already up' doesn't mean it warrants a response, or deserves to be seen. It shows a lack of care.
    By the same token, was it worth you mentioning, in every single one of your following posts, a defense of your initial one?
    Though this has now gone far beyond the realm of what is necessary- Aculag pointing out that you made what is just in general online forum taste/etiquette a deletable, disposable thread- and doing your viewers of the favor of embedding the video (I for instance, wouldn't have watched it otherwise) wasn't a negative thing to do- it was helpful to your thread.
    If anything, it necessitated an 'Oh, silly me. Thanks'. Not the "@Aculag... 5 seconds worth of effort for me... or 5 seconds of effort for anyone whose interested" you wrote. Followed by a series of equally stubborn, lazily-written defenses against someone doing you a general courtesy as the first post in your thread.
    Now, I wish I could stand here with the decade of FXHome seniority and understanding of the forum members and etiquette through thousands of published posts as I used to, and hammer down on what I see as counterproductive, lazy, lacking-in-care, and just generally negative behavior on here. But that time has passed, and this place has changed into a different site entirely.
    You may think I'm friends with Aculag, then, and defending him on the principle of solidarity or bias.
    But no, this is the more startling fact- for years Aculag and I have butted heads. He has easily been one of my biggest enemies and counter-arguments in discussion and forum membership for the majority of my life. When we've disagreed in the past, we've disagreed heavily, competitively, and fundamentally. We'd argue and protest eachother until kingdom come.
    The scary reality here, though- and not just in this thread- is that we tend to agree on everything now, because the arguments and conversations presented are so lower-level thinking, so broad, that we both always seem to err on the side of obviousness or common sense, and end up looking like agreeable pals.
    Well, that's just sort of depressing. Because it means the quality of the community is just much less, well, communal. It's more clinical, consumer, and product-based. And I know I can't help that. There's nothing wrong with that. But that doesn't mean you should throw rules and general etiquette out the window.
    And that being said, do whatever you want. You don't want to respect the general civility and courtesy of actual, thought-out, in-depth discussion- just know the forums and overall online community are worse for it. I honestly don't know why I even waste my own time on making threads for topics with polls, well-written first posts, and embedded images and video (as all of my recent film projects posted here and topics were), in hopes of spurring greater and higher-quality discussion; when people like you can just write "@Andrew lol idk" and be content.
    It's a sad, sad descent I've seen here. And while there is some spirited discussion, the level of narcissism and naivety- people only writing to be able to anticipate and write responses, keeps me away from this site these days. Am I any better? Probably not.
    But it's a disappointment to look to the community, company, and forum base that helped fundamentally shape who I am as a filmmaker, and person in-general- a place I came for and was able to speak-out critical points of interest, argument, and discussion with safely and respectfully- and found my voice as an adult- and have to put up with single-line URL garbage posts that are now defended as 'an opinion'.
    And that's my opinion.
  • guitar74guitar74 Website User Posts: 506
    Very Well Said Andrew!!
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    Andrew do you really HAVE to be right? Fine its lazy... does that matter THAT much? Haughty... I disagree. Mean-spirited? From the person who starts directly attacking someone over a web post? doubt it. Is all your posting on this and clearly just ramping up your thoughts and emotions on this really conducive to a good online discussion?
    Andrew we disagree and instead of acknowledging that we have a difference of opinion you're just disregarding everything I am saying because you have to be right. Are you waiting for someone to declare your opinion correct? Do you want more people to jump in and say who they side with? Anyone who starts with name calling cannot call me out for disrespecting civility and courtesy.
    I was not being discourteous to Aculag because he posted the video in an embedded post. It was the unneeded extra comment which I felt was discourteous to me. Regardless of if YOU or SOMEONE ELSE sees it that way, I saw it that way.
    This is beyond silly. Half of what you said is just your personal problems with 90% of the internet and the other half is further disagreeing on an opinion. Also you can't mention narcissism after a paragraph about your seniority on this forum when that has nothing to do with this.
    Please, can everyone stop? I know I am providing fodder by challenging anything Andrew has said. I have some responsibility for this but please no more people jumping in for a STUPID internet fight. People really try to get into some online bullying by attacking people online and its beyond silly. The internet allows either normally nice polite citizens or reclusive people to jump online and act like they are King of the world and just say crap for days. People lose perspective on the real world. I keep saying it does not really matter because if kept in proper perspective anyone should feel the same way.
    Now this is more direct and public call.
    @Aculag... We do disagree, but I respect you for having your beliefs. Thank you very much for letting this go. You are very talented with hitfilm.
    @Andrew.. You disagree with everything I've said to someone else. That's fine. Please lets not have this continue. You're a smart and talented guy. You have your beliefs and I have mine, so Im appealing to you to let it go. I can ignore just differences on opinion, but I will not back down from someone just taking personal snipes at me.



    Cyber Bully Group 1. The Mighty Self-Defenders
    Bullies under this category do not recognize themselves as bullies. Rather, they believe they are protecting themselves against the ‘bad guy’ and as a result resolve to bully others. ‘In order not to be bullied, I should bully others’ or ‘I have been bullied, I should get even.’
    They may have been targets of cyber bullying or they are too afraid to be bullied so they take the first step. In this case, bullying online takes place because they believe that they are protecting themselves from its harmful attacks.

    http://bullyingnomore.com/2011/08/10/cyber-bullying-why-does-it-happen/
    "Examples of what constitutes cyberbullying include communications that seek to intimidate, control, manipulate, put down, falsely discredit, or humiliate the recipient"
    "Cyberbullying can be as simple as continuing to send e-mails or text messages harassing someone who has said they want no further contact with the sender. It may also include public actions such as repeated threats, sexual remarks, pejorative labels (i.e., hate speech) or defamatory false accusations), ganging up on a victim by making the person the subject of ridicule in online forums, hacking into or vandalizing sites about a person, and posting false statements as fact aimed a discrediting or humiliating a targeted person."
  • AndrewAndrew Website User Posts: 379 Enthusiast
    edited December 2012
    Half of what you said is just your personal problems with 90% of the internet
    Dare to be the 10%. This community deserves it.
    What I'm talking about isn't anything to agree or disagree with, it isn't a 'difference of opinion', and it isn't a 'me versus you' argument. I'm simply saying "Have more care and courtesy in what you post, and don't insult those who wish for it." If you believe and want to treat people 'like the internet doesn't matter' and act as if it's fake, disposable, ingenuine conversation between people who just get on to feel like they're the 'kings of the world'- go somewhere else. This community, in order to grow, needs more. And it deserves better than that.
    There is no question here, just an observation and a directive. Infer that's cyberbullying if you wish.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    SOOOOOOOOOOOO what are you doing for NYE?
  • guitar74guitar74 Website User Posts: 506
    Michael James, you are really the problem with the net. First time someone says something you dont like U jump them over it and attack, Then you just keep writing. My advice, dont say anything at all. You are to negative. Andrew is right and right about you. You think you are right about everything and you are not, so get over yourself and treat people with respect or dont reply at all. Please, dont argue with me again, in the end I'm in the right. Thanks and peace out!
  • KahvehRobinettKahvehRobinett Website User Posts: 443
    guitar74, way to just reignite a fight that was long over. . .
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    Lol this guy kept emailing me after I asked him to leave me alone(repeatedly) last month...
    Don't worry nothing to see here.
  • guitar74guitar74 Website User Posts: 506
    edited January 2013
    I emailed you, because I was tired of the fourm and taking up space. U would not admit about the copyrights, that is why I emailed U, thought you would never email back every time! Thought it was wired of M James to go on and on and emailing me back. I'm done with you and your attitude and seems like other people are to. It is a matter of time before your attitude comes back out and pisses other people off. If you read this take and dont bother to reply back, just accept it.
  • guitar74guitar74 Website User Posts: 506

    guitar74, way to just reignite a fight that was long over. . .
    No, it is the guys attitude in general. I did not look at the dates on the post. Me and James disagreed over copyrights and he would not let it go, so I emailed him to get the topic off the fourm and he kept replying back and would not let it go.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    lol sure guitar THATS what happened
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    I go away for one month and look what happens.... :)
    My stance on this is that you should always put effort in to make the initial post of a topic interesting. In this particular case a proper embed of the video and at least a one-line "this is really cool, thought it might be of interest!" blurb would have greatly enhanced the post. The forum is a discussion area, so the first post of any new topic should have enough content to potentially start a discussion, which a lone, out of context link doesn't do.
    On the flipside, the heated reaction against Michael's minimal post was a bit bizarrely aggressive. It's always worth discussing how the quality of the forums can be improved, but let's do it in a civil manner without it escalating into name-calling.
    Hopefully we can all move on now and continue to make the forums are more interesting place to post.
  • PhilWessonPhilWesson Website User Posts: 241 Enthusiast
    So..um.... Avengers!
    ...right guys?
  • SimonKJonesSimonKJones Moderator Website User, HitFilm Beta Tester Posts: 4,450 Enthusiast
    Well said, Phil! :P
    I have to say, this wasn't one of my favourite shots in The Avengers. While it's technically fantastic, and I like the concept of showing the team working together, the camera move is simply too fancy, betraying its virtual nature. It's a bit like some of the sweeping shots flying around the ship in Cameron's Titanic - they were visually and technically stunning at the time, but it was obvious they couldn't have been shot with a 'real' camera. In films that are supposed to be 'real' in their own terms, I think that can be to their detriment.
    Much as I thought Prometheus was a fairly naff film, one thing Ridley Scott is really good at doing is shooting his VFX sequences as if they were real events being shot by a real camera crew.
    It's actually a bit surprising that such a fancy shot is in the Avengers, given Whedon's prior affinity for 'realistic' VFX camerawork, as seen in Serenity/Firefly.
  • AculagAculag Website User Posts: 708 Just Starting Out

    Much as I thought Prometheus was a fairly naff film, one thing Ridley Scott is really good at doing is shooting his VFX sequences as if they were real events being shot by a real camera crew.
    This is something that Peter Jackson really excels at as well. Watching some of the behind-the-scenes stuff for The Hobbit, he's done some really revolutionary things with the way they film virtual sets. I used to work in a studio that had a virtual set for real-time compositing. It relied on having the ceiling covered with a bunch of discs painted with reflective patterns, and set at different heights, and an IR camera was mounted on top of the camera doing the filming. That camera sent the location and depth information to the compositing room, and we used that information to inform the CG sets where the camera was. It was really something special at the time (2003), but it's pretty amazing to see how far that technology has come in the last decade.
  • MichaelJamesMichaelJames Website User Posts: 2,038 Enthusiast
    @Simon... im curious what would be a your ideal FX shot. I know that sounds like a weird question, because typically you come up with the story... and then construct the shot. When the new incredible hulk movie was in pre production they cut up hulk comics and posted images on the wall as to shots they wanted. Like Bruce Banner falling out of the aircraft. They crafted the movie around the shots that they absolutely wanted to keep.
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