The Movie Wall...

Keegan
Keegan Posts: 294 Just Starting Out
So I took a little trip over to the movie wall to see what new things people were creating... And I wasn't shocked, but confused. There are mass amounts of videos on the Movie Wall and very few of them seem to be relevant. :huh:
I'm seeing vlogs and music videos and all kinds of things that aren't what I had expected. I always thought the movie wall was there to showcase the latest tests and videos and short films that are showcasing hitfilm's power.I understand there is a "Featured" function, but there are still unfeatured videos on the movie wall that are relevant to hitfilm and worthy of being posted on the site.
Has anyone else noticed this/been bothered by this? I think the easiest solution is to be harsher on deciding what goes through and what doesn't. Right now it is over-saturated with irrelevant content.
The little idealist in my head thinks there should be more tabs on the movie wall, like "Short Films", "VFX tests", "Msc", and have featured videos in each category. Ja? :D
Just a thought. I felt like addressing this issue before it gets more out-of-hand. :P
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Comments

  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    There's no explicit moderation of the Movie Wall, so essentially 'anything goes'. We do watch them and highlight stuff we think is worth a watch, which show up as the larger featured movies. Beyond that, though, there's no filtering. There are various reasons for taking this approach, the main one being that we simply don't have time to check and choose which videos go up.
    This is, however, very much Movie Wall Version 1. There are lots of ideas for improvements, but it has to be balanced with everything else the web team is working on. By all means let us know what you guys would like to see implemented.
    Personally, I think the next logical step would be a ratings/commenting system, so that the good stuff will naturally come to the top. That'll also make it a place where people can receive useful feedback etc.
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    edited July 2012
    Personally, I noticed this a while ago. A cluttered and, to me, rather irrelevant movie wall. I have just ignored it up to now.
    The way I understand it, the movie wall is a compilation of videos that were posted throughout the hitfilm forums and blog. If this is so, the videos should have a link to the forum in which they were posted so that people would then have the ability to go to them and see why they were posted and would then be able to comment.
  • DanielGWood
    DanielGWood Posts: 1,018 Just Starting Out

    The way I understand it, the movie wall is a compilation of videos that were posted throughout the hitfilm forums and blog. If this is so, the videos should have a link to the forum in which they were posted so that people would then have the ability to go to them and see why they were posted and would then be able to comment.
    Sadly not the case. The movies on the wall are those exported from inside the software with "Broadcast" turned on, plus any that are manually submitted via the Movie Wall itself. We don't automatically add videos from the forums or blog - while this would be pretty cool and might mean some higher quality content, it's not too practical as the forum software is third party.
    As Simon says though, the Movie Wall right now is v1 - very much a first version, and something we hope to improve on in future. Suggestions for how to change it are very welcome.
  • Froi
    Froi Posts: 966
    I agree with Simon, I think you should be able to comment rate and like/ dislike the videos on the wall, along with being able to see how many views the video h gotten from the wall, or just from the overall views (like views from youtube, and other sites).
    I d think tabs would also help, like there being a featured tab, a film tab and a test tab and tutorial one. That would be quite cool.
    Also I think you should have a bar on the right, or left, showing the top ten voted videos each month/week, or showing some of the "staff picks". It would be interesting to see what you will come up with, an I personally find that what I mentioned will work well (obviously I say that, otherwise I wouldn't of written it in th first place haha).
    But I think you should maybe write up a quick questionaire asking people what they would like the movie wall to be like, I think that would be the best way to get the best possible movie wall V2 possible.
    Hope this helped :)
    PS: I like this topic a lot, I've viewed the wall a lot and I have seen sme odd videos that have absolutely nothing to do with film at all! Haha
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    One thing to bear in mind is that HitFilm as a product is slightly different to some of our earlier software. VisionLab, for example, was very specifically a compositor with some VFX generators.
    HitFilm aims to be an editor and a compositor, with some really epic, market-leading effects generators. We've got a ways to go to get this balanced correctly in terms of features, but we're getting there. But as a result, it means that HitFilm can be used for pretty much any video-based project. As such, stuff made in HitFilm won't always be VFX focused and they won't always be fiction narrative-based.
    Hence we'll have short films, and documentaries, and VFX tests, and motion graphics idents, and vlogs, and commercials etc...the trick is in creating a movie wall that enables the high quality stuff to float to the top, and that's something we'll be working on down the line.
    As we've said, if you have specific ideas do let us know - as with the product wishlist topic, the more ideas and feedback we have, the more chance there is we'll be able to shape it into what we all want it to be.
  • KahvehRobinett
    KahvehRobinett Posts: 443
    edited July 2012
    I personally like the diversity of the movie walls content it makes it much more interesting. Although I don't like quality content getting pushed way down when somebody releases five completely random vfx tests.
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 294 Just Starting Out
    Glad to see all this feedback!
    So I guess the problem is less about irrelevant content and more about cluttered/disorganized content.
    I agree with you that Hitfilm can produce all of these videos so, technically, "anything goes". However, I think that misleads those who actually come to the Movie Wall and leaves the wall vulnerable to exploitation by view-hungry Youtubers/Vimeo(ers?) who just want to put their content up in as many places as possible.
    I don't even mind the 5 second FX tests. I like to see what the community is up to and what different people are doing with the software's power.
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    I miss the Fxhome Cinema. It was slow in accepting and posting videos, it was kind of clunky, and outdated however I do miss it. It had limitations. Your videos were watched by the Fxhome team before they were allowed through, ensuring that they were properly categorized, rated, and posted. It is something, probably not possible anymore, but the way it worked at the time, was great, imo.
    I think the movie wall needs to be better organization. That is my main complaint at this time.
  • Keegan
    Keegan Posts: 294 Just Starting Out
    I have fond memories of the FXhome cinema. Back when I had Effectslab Lite and impressed all my friends with muzzle flashes and poorly-composited explosions. :P
    I totally agree. That system worked well. I guess that is what I always thought the movie wall was supposed to be about. :))
  • Froi
    Froi Posts: 966
    I agree, I think the wall would benefit, along with the community, if it was better organised.
    So, along the oines of what Robinett said, I think that a more organised wall will allow good quality short films be recognised more and stay near the top so the people can see it, instead of them having to scroll through a page or two to find a short dim, instead of many FVX tests.
    :)
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    I am not going to lie, I don't like the movie wall much at all. I'd much rather have a more vimeo/youtube style interface than the current one. It is too cluttered, imo. I personally think the old Cinema was better than the movie wall is now.
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    As a filmmaker, I agree with you, Matthias. The old cinema was far more useful in terms of having a sense of your audience, getting feedback, and getting that 'closeness' to the people watching your work. It was also really good at showing you the high quality content.
    As an actual viewing experience the old cinema was pretty poor, though.
    Conversely, I'd say the Movie Wall is a really pleasant viewing experience, with the problems being a lack of filtering by quality and a lack of filmmaker-viewer interaction. We're well aware of these issues and I know both myself and Dan would love to really get our teeth into Movie Wall V2.
    As always with a small team, it's about where you put your resources.
  • I think the Movie Wall is far better than the old cinema, which was unfortunately always let down by the younger users abusing the ratings - which led to films that people slaved for weeks or months getting less views than a poor first test that a kid spent barely an hour on.
    There are certainly a few improvement to be made on the movie wall, such as categorising - which i think could be done by the uploader with some options like 'Effects Test', 'Short Films' and an option like 'Fun' for the non serious projects that aren't quite short films or tests.
    Then, if Categories are introduced, I think there should be links to specialised Walls for them, But there should be a more focused Spotlight, I know sometimes shorts are highlighted in blog posts when you have the time, and that should continue in the form of Staff picks, but then there should be a Community picks which is highlighted by how many 'Likes" a video gets. There definitely needs to be comments part too, I remember getting some good feedback in the old cinema sometimes.
    Thats my ideas, they're probably similar to ideas that you already had floating around, but it all helps toward improving.
  • Froi
    Froi Posts: 966
    edited July 2012

    I think the Movie Wall is far better than the old cinema, which was unfortunately always let down by the younger users abusing the ratings - which led to films that people slaved for weeks or months getting less views than a poor first test that a kid spent barely an hour on.
    There are certainly a few improvement to be made on the movie wall, such as categorising - which i think could be done by the uploader with some options like 'Effects Test', 'Short Films' and an option like 'Fun' for the non serious projects that aren't quite short films or tests.
    Then, if Categories are introduced, I think there should be links to specialised Walls for them, But there should be a more focused Spotlight, I know sometimes shorts are highlighted in blog posts when you have the time, and that should continue in the form of Staff picks, but then there should be a Community picks which is highlighted by how many 'Likes" a video gets. There definitely needs to be comments part too, I remember getting some good feedback in the old cinema sometimes.
    Thats my ideas, they're probably similar to ideas that you already had floating around, but it all helps toward improving.
    I like that, however, in paragraph 3,
    [size="4"]"then there should be a Community picks which is highlighted by how many 'Likes" a video gets."[/size]
    This may lead to only the most viewed videos being on the community picks, it should be so the videos with the best via to like ratio should be there, so newer videos with less views, but with some likes, have a chance of getting onto the "community picks" bit.

    [size="4"]"i think could be done by the uploader with some options like 'Effects Test', 'Short Films' and an option like 'Fun' for the non serious projects that aren't quite short films or tests."[/size]
    I agree, this means that the hit film staff won't need to do as much categorising by them selves, as others can do it. However you could get some people that do short "fun" tests, but they may think it is absolutely amazing, which it may not be, and therefore it they would place it in a different section which could confuse people.
    eg: Some one may go onto the short film section, and come across a VFX test.
    so the wall would have to be viewed by Hitfilm staff to make sure videos are in the right places, like they do on the forums, they move wrong forum topics into the right forum if it has been created in the wrong forum.
    If you understand what i am saying lol?
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    Valve have quite a cool movie wall equivalent to go with the Source Filmmaker: http://steamcommunity.com/sfm I think there's some good ideas we can find there in terms of organising content and providing feedback.
    Staff moderation is a tricky one, as with HitFilm's continuing growth and the potential scale of the movie wall it's not something we can afford to moderate actively. A passive style of moderation where we occasionally highlight good stuff could work nicely, though.

  • eg: Some one may go onto the short film section, and come across a VFX test.
    so the wall would have to be viewed by Hitfilm staff to make sure videos are in the right places, like they do on the forums, they move wrong forum topics into the right forum if it has been created in the wrong forum.
    If you understand what i am saying lol?
    There will always be people who abuse the categories, so there would have to be restrictions - but as far as i know that would be difficult and would end up as just being guidelines/ suggestions. Example: short films would be classed as videos over a certain length, i.e. 2 mins.
    The issues is that i don't think you can enforce that without having the staff moderate the wall as there isn't a way of filtering videos by length to my knowledge (I don't do web).
    Remember Flehxi, these are just suggestions and ideas, that doesn't mean they will work perfectly, nothing ever does.
  • DanielGWood
    DanielGWood Posts: 1,018 Just Starting Out

    There will always be people who abuse the categories, so there would have to be restrictions - but as far as i know that would be difficult and would end up as just being guidelines/ suggestions. Example: short films would be classed as videos over a certain length, i.e. 2 mins.
    The issues is that i don't think you can enforce that without having the staff moderate the wall as there isn't a way of filtering videos by length to my knowledge (I don't do web).
    Remember Flehxi, these are just suggestions and ideas, that doesn't mean they will work perfectly, nothing ever does.
    Two points: You can already filter the movies on the wall by length - no issue there as that information is already available to us.
    Secondly, the problem isn't the categories, and isn't necessarily that people would deliberately misuse them, that can be combated. Our biggest issue is likely to be the same we have now - people filling in the fields with garbage. Whatever the default category is would likely receive the 15-exports-of-pretty-much-the-same-thing-with-garbage-in-the-title that currently ends up on the Movie Wall. This isn't a new thing - part of the problem with the Cinema was the huge amount of effort staff had to put in editing various fields.
    There are things we could do to sort it out a bit though - intelligent algorithms based on combinations of views, likes, duration, previous movies, that kind of thing. It's all a question of time :)
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    One potential easy 'fix' for the garbage element is if the default category is essentially the garbage category. :) So that stuff gets filtered out by default. That would hopefully cut out the zero-effort uploads, even though there'd still be some inevitable abuse.
  • Prospero
    Prospero Posts: 127
    The FX Home site did have the ability to rate, and comment on uploads along with specific categories. I think that would be the way to go. I saw few comments that trashed videos, mostly encouraging remarks and helpful tips.
  • fredclips
    fredclips Posts: 228
    Is it just me? or do groups of movies sometimes vanish from the wall for days before reappearing?
    I'm sure I've noticed this a few times time now...
  • DanielGWood
    DanielGWood Posts: 1,018 Just Starting Out
    That does happen from time to time yes. We know the causes and are getting better at putting things back to rights afterwards, but don't have a way to stop it happening completely yet.
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    I wasn't aware the software was supposed to be limited to just compositing "movies". I'll refrain from posting political satire and music vids on the wall in the future. Youtube will suffice.

    I thought the movie wall was for any creative project produced within HitFilm. Evidently that's not what other people think. Perhaps a guideline on movie wall usage would benefit those of us who are confused about it's application.
  • ZedFable
    ZedFable Posts: 136
    For what it's worth I noticed this happened when I posted the Galactic Empire PSA recently. I was looking to send a message to HitFilm staff when I got around to it, but I see it's back up now which is cool. Is there anything in the future we can do to prevent this? Is the bug triggered by tags or length or something? What exactly is going wrong when this happens?
  • duffman
    duffman Posts: 235 Enthusiast
    I happen to like the movie wall the way it is. I have submitted, I think, 3 music videos. All 3 done in HitFilm, with the exception of title work. (I even used HF as my editor for my daugthers' prom & graduation videos.) They are not technically brilliant, and I would say that compared to what many on here are doing they look rather ametuerish. But I am new to this videos stuff and hope to get better at it as I go.
    I decided to do these in HitFilm because the green screen preset is by far superior to the other editor I have. But most importantly renders are sample accurate. Thats right it might take me a bit longer to get my audio & vid clips aligned but when I do, renders are spot on. No glitches, no added frames, everything in sync.
    As stated above, they dont have much wow factor, but they where done in HF.
    Duff
  • Froi
    Froi Posts: 966
    (just to say, my video disappeared off the wall again :L )
  • DanielGWood
    DanielGWood Posts: 1,018 Just Starting Out

    I wasn't aware the software was supposed to be limited to just compositing "movies". I'll refrain from posting political satire and music vids on the wall in the future. Youtube will suffice.I thought the movie wall was for any creative project produced within HitFilm. Evidently that's not what other people think. Perhaps a guideline on movie wall usage would benefit those of us who are confused about it's application.
    As Simon said before, there is no limit to what you can do with the software, and everything is welcome on the Wall. In future we'd like to look into ways it can be filtered so that those who are just after "movies" can do so, but right now that isn't supported. Please do continue to post whatever you like (particularly satire!).
    As previously stated we'd like to make some improvements and this is very much version 1, but we are constricted by time. That said, every bit of feedback we receive from you guys is helpful when working out what to do in future, and every film submitted to the Movie Wall helps also - we now have an idea what you guys actually use it for, whereas back in November last year we could only guess.

    For what it's worth I noticed this happened when I posted the Galactic Empire PSA recently. I was looking to send a message to HitFilm staff when I got around to it, but I see it's back up now which is cool. Is there anything in the future we can do to prevent this? Is the bug triggered by tags or length or something? What exactly is going wrong when this happens?
    It's not to do with the individual movies, nor a bug with the Movie Wall per se, it's more to do with how various other pieces of software interact with the Wall. I'm afraid I can't go into more detail on that. I have a few ideas on how to reduce this further in future, hoping to try some of them out soon.

    (just to say, my video disappeared off the wall again :L )
    I've just been through the list, the only movies which are currently hidden have been made private/removed by the owner, so I can't see an issue there. Which movie is missing?
  • Froi
    Froi Posts: 966

    I've just been through the list, the only movies which are currently hidden have been made private/removed by the owner, so I can't see an issue there. Which movie is missing?
    oh no its back now :) thanks
  • StormyKnight
    StormyKnight Posts: 2,722 Ambassador
    [quote name='Daniel G Wood' timestamp='1346318219' post='20966']
    As Simon said before, there is no limit to what you can do with the software, and everything is welcome on the Wall. In future we'd like to look into ways it can be filtered so that those who are just after "movies" can do so, but right now that isn't supported. Please do continue to post whatever you like (particularly satire!).
    /quote]
    Thanks, Daniel. I saw Simon's comments after I posted. Don't know how but when I scrolled the computer rolled further down the page than I had first noticed. I was just being facetious about the use of the software. ;)
    Categorized vids would make it much easier to find what one is looking for. Love the idea. Hope you can figure it all out- sounds like a real challenge.
  • MatthiasClaflin
    MatthiasClaflin Posts: 674 Just Starting Out
    Am I the only one who is a little curious as to what brought about the idea of the movie wall in the first place? Why did you guys go with that design rather than a cinema design this time?
  • SimonKJones
    SimonKJones Posts: 4,448 Enthusiast
    The current design fully supports the idea of a feedback cinema, we just haven't had time to implement it. Either way, you're looking at a listing of movies, and we decided that the Movie Wall was one of the more interesting ways to list a bunch of movies. Once Dan and the team have time to implement more filtering, ranking and feedback systems it'll be quite a different beast but will still be able to retain the general design.